Why bother with the Varicam?

[Indyreel]

How close is the hpx500 to the Varicam in picture quality? Is there any reason to go with a Varicam over an hpx500?

[Icarus2005]

I own both cams, and when I shoot my own projects I use the varicam. It has more megapixles and has film rec mode which more closely resembles film. There's other things too, but those are two big ones.

Don't get me wrong. I really like my HPX, but it's not on the same level. It's like asking someone why should they buy a Ford GT40 when they already own a Mustang GT.

[Spartacus]

(...) and has film rec mode which more closely resembles film.
Could you explain that a bit more?

[MalcolmOng]

You mean there's a 24p that's more 24p than 24p is?

[EditingFX]

I think it's 24p that goes to 11....
;)

[Icarus2005]

Film Rec mode is, for lack of a better explanation, is a proprietary setting that emulates the 'feel' of film. It has less of a video look. My prefered method of shooting is with the Varicam and pro35 adaptor and primes.

The camera can also be set with video setting for a cleaner more docu feel, like you might see in the Planet Earth series on the discovery channel.

[Spartacus]

Film Rec mode is, for lack of a better explanation, is a proprietary setting that emulates the 'feel' of film.
Ah, I always searched for "filmlook" back in the days, I should have googled "filmfeel" instead :laugh:
Seriously, you claim to shoot with and own really nice equipment, could we maybe leave out the esoteric language and talk about resolution, framerates, latitude, color matrix and curves?
I still dont´t get your point...

[Noel Evans]

Film Rec mode is, for lack of a better explanation, is a proprietary setting that emulates the 'feel' of film.

The HPX has exactly the same thing.

[smelni]

the image processing on the varicam is more advanced I beleive and the gamma is MORE filmlike - that said I suspect that the HPX500 and the varicam are more close then far from each other for most projects

[Andrew McCarrick]

Another thing would be framerates....

"Like the AJ-HDC27 VariCam camera, variable frame rates in 11 steps between 12p and 60p allows undercranking/overcranking for fast- or slow-motion effects"

The 500 only has 11 steps of frame rates; The Varicam can do 4-60 in single frame increments + Speed Ramps.

[Barry_Green]

The 500 has a lot more frame rates than that, it actually has around three dozen different frame rates. Every even frame rate from 2 to 60, plus odd frame rates of 3, 23, 25, and 27 fps. You just can't access them all directly from the menus, you have to program them into a scene file text file.

[Andrew McCarrick]

The 500 has a lot more frame rates than that, it actually has around three dozen different frame rates. Every even frame rate from 2 to 60, plus odd frame rates of 3, 23, 25, and 27 fps. You just can't access them all directly from the menus, you have to program them into a scene file text file.
Right... I just wasn't 100% sure if it was like the 200 or not with those framerates.... but the varicam is still looking at over 50 framerates.

[smelni]

are those extra framerates worth another 20-30 thousand dollars and giving up 1080 recording?

[Andrew McCarrick]

are those extra framerates worth another 20-30 thousand dollars and giving up 1080 recording?

Absolutely, IMO..... the framerate ramping alone is more than enough for me to go with the Varicam over the 500.... And it's only 1080I on the 500, so that's comparable to 720P anyway.

Effectively 720p=1080i or even 720p>1080i

[mikkowilson]

Erm, the 500 shoots 1080p

But yes, ramping is one of the things that clearly sets the Varicam apart.

- Mikko

[Andrew McCarrick]

Erm, the 500 shoots 1080p

But yes, ramping is one of the things that clearly sets the Varicam apart.

- Mikko

The 500 uses the DVCPro HD codec which can't record true 1080p, so it has to be 1080p in a 1080i signal..... so it is 24p, but at 24 over 60i. With AVC-Intra you could record 1080p at 24 since the AVCIntra codec allows true 1080p, but the 500 does not have AVC. I just wish the 3000 had variable frame rates, ramping and be selectable between 60Hz and 59.94Hz....... be even better than it already is.

[mikkowilson]

Who cares how it's recorded (as long as it's all there, as it is with pulldown with 24p), as long as it shoots progressive .. and it does.

And 1080/30p is 100% directly nativly compatible with 1080/60i. Just as 25p is with 50i in PAL/50Hz land.

- Mikko

[pixelator]

Who cares how it's recorded (as long as it's all there, as it is with pulldown with 24p), as long as it shoots progressive .. and it does.

And 1080/30p is 100% directly nativly compatible with 1080/60i. Just as 25p is with 50i in PAL/50Hz land.

- Mikko

uh... about 700 less pixels across. When would that matter? Film out... but in 10 years what theater is going to project with film anyway? HD-DVD or Blueray might be softer. (might..) Broadcast? Probably not unless DirectHD gets a better codec. So how many people right now would need it? I would bet less than more would need it.

as far as 30p being mentioned, I don't think i'll do 30p anymore myself as that I get less than stellar results downconverting 30p to sd DVD than a 24p source.. and 24p can be cross converted to 60i just fine.

[mikkowilson]

1080p carred in a 1080i data stream is identical to a 1080p(Native) data-stream.


The resolutions of the various codecs in any paticular situation are of course a seperate matter. And adding in marketing terms like "true HD" and "full HD" just confuse the matter.

- Mikko

[Icarus2005]

The HPX has exactly the same thing.


NO, it doesn't! if you think it does, then you are dreaming.
You are confusing the "cinelike" settings in the HPX, which are the same as the HVX. These are more filmic than standard video settings, but not nearly as filmic as the "film rec" mode on the Varicam.

I have both cameras, I should know. And believe me, if I could get the same image out of my HPX that I do from my Varicam then I would be shooting my own stuff with the HPX to save the tape and digitizing costs.

if you don't believe then do a comparison.

[walleye]

What about the 3000 compared to the varicam?

[Spartacus]

I suppose the release of the 3000 only foreshadows a new Varicam II...

[David Jimerson]

uh... about 700 less pixels across. When would that matter? Film out... but in 10 years what theater is going to project with film anyway? HD-DVD or Blueray might be softer. (might..) Broadcast? Probably not unless DirectHD gets a better codec. So how many people right now would need it? I would bet less than more would need it.


How is it 700 fewer pixels across?

[Barry_Green]

I suppose the release of the 3000 only foreshadows a new Varicam II...
3000 is completely unrelated to a VariCam II. However, Panasonic has said that there will be a VariCam II, but it's still maybe 12 to 18 months away.

[Andrew McCarrick]

Do you have any ideas as to if the "Varicam II" would be P2 recording or not? And does Panasonic do any Beta testing with actual productions?

[Barry_Green]

Of course it would be P2 -- that's the only way you can record AVC-Intra, and I'd bet my HVX that the new VariCam will use AVC-Intra.

I don't know if they do field beta testing or not, but if they did I'm certain it would be among existing VariCam owners.

[Noel Evans]

NO, it doesn't! if you think it does, then you are dreaming.


WOW! Thanks for the tip. Maybe I need to up my meds.

Of course Varicam is going to give you a much more sophisticated approach after all you pay for that privilege. That doesnt mean that the approach on the HPX isn't aimed at achieving the same thing.

I wasn't trying to belittle your Varicam.

[SPZ]

Of course it would be P2 -- that's the only way you can record AVC-Intra, and I'd bet my HVX that the new VariCam will use AVC-Intra.

I don't know if they do field beta testing or not, but if they did I'm certain it would be among existing VariCam owners.

Barry, maybe they introduce avc-intra in tape format with the Varicam 2?

[Barry_Green]

Tape's deader than dead. IINM, nobody's made a new tape format since HDV in 2004. Adios, sayonara, don't let the door hit ya where nature split ya, see ya tape.

[SPZ]

Tape's deader than dead. IINM, nobody's made a new tape format since HDV in 2004. Adios, sayonara, don't let the door hit ya where nature split ya, see ya tape.

haha :) point taken!

[USLatin]

Yea... time flies... already even with pro-sumer 200's with only 2 slots you get 34min non-stop of 1080p... all nails are in the coffin' with 68min of DVCPRO HD on the 500 and newer without stopping... soon it will be 2:16 hs!!! nice...

I want to know one thing... and you big boys might know where to point me towards... what cameras compare to the A900 Panavised?