Ergonomics - EX1

[katyam]

Some thoughts on the ergonomics of EX1 have already been voiced on this forum, and it seems that there is quite a bit of diversity of opinion on the subject. It would be great if those who have the camera already could share their evaluations here.

Thank you!

Katya

[sinai]

hi

the ergonomics of the ex are a nightmare , they builded it with the whole gravity on the left hand side of the body so its far far away from the hand thingy.
it s been already said here a pain to do handhold shots , which was quiet a downer fo r me ...
the handle on the right side it s removable you can change the angle which is except of very few situaitions absolutely useless. the buttons are too tiny - the camera has two faces the chocolate one which is the left side and the ugly one the right side . they have all the stuff u need to work on the left side the right side is just left out looking so sad and cheap . the real shame is that s extremly bad for long handhold shootings since it s balanced totally off ! maybe sony is throwing some extra grip tool on the market to balance this cam out and eas the hanndhold ..but i doubt that . really wonder how the ppl at sony bring a sub 10 k camera on the market ( they should know ppl who invest in this segment do lot of handheld shots ) which is that horror to handhold even call it handycam. it aint handy !!!!
i would check abc or one of this grip companys and invest in a good lil steadi system which runs well with the ex if you plan a lot of handheld.

[mico]

Then I think Sony did everyone a favor. The day that handholding any handycam type camera around 5lbs becomes extinct the better. The jiggle is becoming unbearable to watch as well as a sign of amateurism. There are dozens of very small very cheap handheld rigs one can use. I haven't handheld any of these cams for years because the slightest jiggle is magnified a thousand times when you handhold without any aid.

[katyam]

Completely agree about the jiggle. Could you suggest a rig that would work well with EX1?

[harddrive]

The day that handholding any handycam type camera around 5lbs becomes extinct the better. The jiggle is becoming unbearable to watch as well as a sign of amateurism.
Absolutely true, though it's wrist strain that makes me want an end to this form factor even more than jiggle. When the Z1 came out, the most negative thing I felt about it was ergonomics, and the same applies to the HVX200. It's what for this size/weight JVC did get right at the time with the HD100 and I'd been hoping that the Z1/HVX200 successors would follow JVCs lead. Regrettably Sony didn't, let's wait and see if Panasonic can steal a march on them with the HVX200 successor.

That said, the EX rotating handgrip is an improvement - at least it allows holding without bending the wrist.

[mico]

There are many if you look for them. Some are very good and pricey. And I'm just talking handheld. No steadicam devices no shoulder rigs. Something small light, inconspicuous and cheap to lessen the 'camera and just your hand magnification' jiggle. The whole reason some go with the handycam is because of size and I feel if you get something big and bulky and expensive then it defeats the reason you wanted to go small in the first place. Something small you can put in a bag that won't drag you down and is cheap and that i think will will work especially well with the ex because you can adjust its handgrip is the levelcam. I do not work for the company. He has made a monopod like device for it but I'm just talking about the small plastic handheld piece he sells separately. I got one and modified it slightly because I wanted more options then to handhold it like a tray. It fits most of the criteria I mentioned. Small , light, inconspicuous. and cheap. And most importantly gives a basic amount of stability to get less jiggle.

[katyam]

Great suggestion - thank you! I am exactly in a situation you described - need to keep the camera and accessories small because a lot of my filming situations simply won't allow a large one - caves, hikes, religious services where the DOP needs to blend in as much as possible.... levelcam looks great - what do you think about levelpod though? Would it work with EX1, or is the camera too heavy?

[mico]

Great suggestion - thank you! I am exactly in a situation you described - need to keep the camera and accessories small because a lot of my filming situations simply won't allow a large one - caves, hikes, religious services where the DOP needs to blend in as much as possible.... levelcam looks great - what do you think about levelpod though? Would it work with EX1, or is the camera too heavy?

It might be. Don't know. It does look interesting. At that price there are many more options to research and test to see what works for you.

[katyam]

Great - thank you for setting me in the right direction. I'll look around to see what else is available.

[Stevet]

Let's face it, all these small toaster like cameras that weigh over 5lbs are not that easy to handle for a long duration.

Also, holding them on longer tele shots is horrible. Hand held only works well for wide to medium tele.

You really need some flying support like DV Rig or something similar.

[mico]

Yes steve we know. There are many instances when I can't use flying support and many reasons why i don't want to use the DVrig. Handheld shooting is a legitimate form of visual expression. The fact remains that we will always handhold these cams because we can and because we want to, for many reasons, and that will never change. So coming up with ways to help visually with this compulsion is the point. Thats why almost every company , major and minor, has made some sort of handheld device that is to be used hand-held.
I saw your your soccer footage. Nice. I know it was just a test but how much more exciting would it have been had it been handheld. Just like those nike Michael Mann football ones.

And lets face it right now there are a bunch of full sized shoulder mount cams that are affordable . When you take into account the huge cost of all the support extras everyone is buying for these little toaster cams that getting a small cam doesn't even make sense if you don't use its size as a major reason for getting the cam in the first place.

[katyam]

One more question - has anyone here used CineSaddle? If yes, what are your impressions?

[Stevet]

Thanks mico.
The soccer footage would of been absolutely horrible hand held.
Remember I was in the stands, bottom deck, more than 100 feet ways from the action on the tele end of the lens. At that zoom range, even the slightest movement would of been huge. In fact, the deck we had the tripod on was so sensitive, even us moving around the tripod was causing the visuals to move. We were just to far away.
That particular action was on the other side of the field.

[mico]

Thanks mico.
The soccer footage would of been absolutely horrible hand held.
Remember I was in the stands, bottom deck, more than 100 feet ways from the action on the tele end of the lens. At that zoom range, even the slightest movement would of been huge. In fact, the deck we had the tripod on was so sensitive, even us moving around the tripod was causing the visuals to move. We were just to far away.
That particular action was on the other side of the field.


I knew this. Obviously I didn't mean you should of handheld the cam from under the bleachers 100 feet away. Your choice was just one choice. Another one would have been to go closer hand held into the action if you had the opportunity. I doubt the footage would have been horrible in this instance. Not questioning your footage or the limitations of your access just using it as an example of a different desired aesthetic not flying the cam or shoulder mounting the cam, some of us need that can only be achieved by going hand held.

[Stevet]

I hear you ...
I agree, no opportunity. Actual game.

[Tim Le]

Then I think Sony did everyone a favor. The day that handholding any handycam type camera around 5lbs becomes extinct the better. The jiggle is becoming unbearable to watch as well as a sign of amateurism.

Totally agree! The best rig is a tripod, lol. Personally, I hate handheld. I hate it like the plague. But if I had to shoot handheld, I'd want some sort of shoulder mount. Sony should have designed the camera to be able to switch to a minimal shoulder mount like the way Ikegami does for their box camera. Basically, you bolt on a shoulder pad to the bottom and mount a viewfinder to the handle:

http://www.ikegami.com/image_j2/hdl40hs.jpg

To do this on the EX1, they'd have to just re-work the forward handle area to allow mounting a special, smaller viewfinder rather than that full size viewfinder. Also on the EX1, I don't think it would be as front-heavy as this Ikegami, but you still might want some counterbalance in the back. The beauty of a camera like the Ikegami is you can take the shoulder pad and VF off and go handheld if you're in a confined space or if you want it be lightweight, etc.

As for the current EX1, I don't think much could have been done with the grip being away from the center. The lens is similar to an ENG lens and that's just how the grip is. But an ENG lens usually goes on shoulder-mounted cameras.