My back problems

[Tom Marshall]

As quite a few of you know, I've been dealing with back issues for the past 10 - 15 years. It's been worse at times and better at other times, but I've always been in pain, every day. Simple things like picking something up or even walking at times were a real pain... literally.

Well, a couple of weeks ago, I sort of figured out why my back was causing me so much trouble. My lower back curves in too much. I was walking one day and then tightened up my abs, just to see if it would make any difference and, surprisingly, it did. It seemed to be easier to walk and with less pain and more range of motion in my hips. What I realized is my pelvis was actually tilting when I did that. So I tried forcing myself to really focus on my posture for the next couple or days and, sure enough, I started to feel better little by little.

So here I am, 2 weeks later. I just finished working out - which I just haven't been able to been able to do for years since any sort of lifting caused my back to simply pop back out and leave me in pain.

I started working out again last week to see if my back would hold up. I went fairly light and nothing really bothered me. So yesterday, I hit some forced negative dips - my bench press was at about 85 pounds for years since I just couldn't lay on a bench without being in pain. I had absolutely no problems with my back today, so I did a back and bicep routine - rows with about 60 pounds for 12 reps and my back actually felt BETTER after 3 sets of that. Then straight leg deadlifts (link (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Hamstrings/BBStraightLegDeadlift.html)) with the same weight - again, my back felt better after having done that. Biceps were next. 50 pounds on the ez-curl bar for 3 sets of 12, 8, and then 6 with 4 forced negatives. Then curls... I'm feeling a little nauseous from all that, but to be able to workout again after so many years of unending pain is a DAMN good feeling...

[Kegan]

Its always a good feeling when you hit the gym again. My back has some minor problems, but nothing like what you've described. I work out everyday and when I miss a day and go back, even that's a great feeling. Keep it up and hopefully your back problems go away as your back muscles strengthen!

-Kegan

[Drew Ott]

Congratulations.

I just recently quit basketball and as a result haven't exercised (literally none) in about 3 weeks... so that must feel incredible.

I'm glad things are getting better.

[Jason Ramsey]

Awesome, Tommy. Last time you said something to me about your back, you were talking about getting surgery... Maybe you should look into getting some kind of back support to help reset your natural posture for a while, until it becomes that way normally? Another thing... My mother goes to a chiropractor often, but not a snap, crackle, pop one as she puts it. Her hips are out of alignment from old injuries, etc. He took all these x-rays to see her alignment, and does this tapping of this thing on her neck (no cracking or tweaking) and she can feel her hips shift. She likes it, and goes when necessary (when she over does herself and puts herself out of whack).... Anyways, perhaps you might look into something like that, if you think your alignment/posture is the culprit.

Later,
Jason

[Tom Marshall]

Its always a good feeling when you hit the gym again. My back has some minor problems, but nothing like what you've described. I work out everyday and when I miss a day and go back, even that's a great feeling. Keep it up and hopefully your back problems go away as your back muscles strengthen!

-Kegan

Thanks, Kegan. Yep, it is a great feeling being able to work out again. I'm a completely different person when I work out. I have so much more energy.


Congratulations.

I just recently quit basketball and as a result haven't exercised (literally none) in about 3 weeks... so that must feel incredible.

I'm glad things are getting better.

You should go join a gym... or buy some free weights. Nothing feels as good as working out.


Awesome, Tommy. Last time you said something to me about your back, you were talking about getting surgery... Maybe you should look into getting some kind of back support to help reset your natural posture for a while, until it becomes that way normally? Another thing... My mother goes to a chiropractor often, but not a snap, crackle, pop one as she puts it. Her hips are out of alignment from old injuries, etc. He took all these x-rays to see her alignment, and does this tapping of this thing on her neck (no cracking or tweaking) and she can feel her hips shift. She likes it, and goes when necessary (when she over does herself and puts herself out of whack).... Anyways, perhaps you might look into something like that, if you think your alignment/posture is the culprit.

Later,
Jason

Yeah, surgery is no longer even a side thought. I'm glad I never went through with it. My mom has the same issues as me when it comes to back problems. She's had 3 surgeries on her back and said she would never have done that if she had a second chance, so that's the advice that I went with. I've been to the chiropractor probably 1000 times by this point in my live and completely agree that a good chiro can make a huge difference in the way you feel. I'd love to go to one, actually. When I visit my family for Christmas this year, I probably will take a couple of treatments since I know a great chiropractor in Florida.

[siniarch]

AWESOME TOMMY!!!

This is great news.

I'm glad you are feeling better, just remember "Baby Steps" you don't want to hurt yourself.

Again, that Physical therapist I recommended, deals with injuries from the source. Meaning he takes a look at your posture, and movement. (bio mechanics) and diagnoses what is causing the problem. Might still be a good idea to check him out.

Keep up the good work and feel better.

[William_Robinette]

or buy some free weights.

but, wait...

Good to hear that you aren't in pain anymore. I too have just recently started going to the gym (again... but this time with a goal) and it just feels great.

[tmnt]

Brilliant news mate! But be VERY careful with straight leg dead lifts. Get really into training abs in a variety of ways. Good luck.

[J.R. Hudson]

I did something similiar to this when training for the Mudrun in 2006

http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=fitness&category=workout.plans&conitem=5e1790ecab7e1110VgnVCM20000012281eac____

And swam 2 miles a week, and ran 3 miles a week and played basketball like a junkie .....

[Simon Höfer]

Hey tommy, good to hear you are getting better and that you can train again. After a hard workout you always feel so good. Keep it up!

[davide]

Great to hear you're doing better. Having longterm postural imbalances like the one you described can lead to build up of scar tissue (from overuse of the compensating muscles). You may want to find a very good myo-fascial practioner (like an ART guy) to try and clear some of that out. Think of it as kind of a preventive care measure as if there any adhesions there they could be inhibiting mobility and lead to neurological problems. I've had myo-fascial work done many times both to help recover from lifting injuries and after a massive surgery to remove a tumor on my left kidney. It's been a life-saver.

best of luck
davide

[mcgeedigital]

Having been a fitness instructor for some time, I can tell you the BEST way to rehab almost any injury is to work out with weight resistance as this builds up the muscles surrounding the various joints, thereby tightening and supporting your skeletal structure.

Kudos!

[MattinSTL]

I suggest that you consider THIS BOOK (http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Back-Pain-Mind-Body-Connection/dp/product-description/0446392308)

[Jim Brennan]

That book looks interesting.

Great news Tommy. I can totally relate. I wound up in the emergency room for my back about 14 years ago. While it has never been the same, watching my posture, stretching and working on the core muscles definitley helps. Although I must admit that consistency has never been my strong suit and I've gained about 20 pounds in the last few years.

Lifting things isn't really a problem, since I am religious aboout doing it properly. My back is at its worst when I have to stand for long periods. Shopping is a nightmare.

I once read a book by trainer that said the thing that helped his posture the most was just imagining a string attached to the back of your head, constantly pulling you up. Sounds weird, but it works for me.

[Capt Quirk]

Getting surgery might be an option, but it is just as likely to mess you up even worse. There is a place called the Bonatti Institute down here, and possibly other locations. It's also not too far from where your family is I think. They don't go in with knives and chisels, like most spinal surgeons. Instead, they do arthoscopic, which is less invasive.... I taped one of their seminars ;) There were many testimonials from people who could barely walk, walking out that day feeling better than ever.

[Jim Brennan]

Chisels? Ouch.

[DeSica]

Nice going...people don't get how bad back pain really is until they suffer from it themselves.

I remember seeing my father in so much pain he had to lie on the floor and bite a handkerchief...and he was still yelling in agony. I didn't understand how much it could have hurt....

Until 20 years later when I get hit with Sciatica. I never hurt so much in my life...I was in tears. Laid up in bed for 7 weeks...pain killers made it barely bearable. I had it again briefly a year later, but the first time was the worst...both legs.

I'm way out of shape now, but was always scared to work out because it might cause more attacks. I think after reading your post I might give some light work outs a try. Hopefully I'll get some positive results without too much discomfort...heaven knows western medicine has been of almost no help.

[Jim Brennan]

I can remember the weight of a bed sheet on my toe causing me to cry like a little girl.

I'm a bit inspired myself. I think I'll work out a little...right after a trip to Wendy's

[OldCorpse]

Congrats on your recovery. I'm sure you already know, but I'll throw this in anyway... make sure not to overdo it with the weights - it's so easy to go too far when you're feeling good right now. Always err on the side of caution - better do too little, than do too much and injure yourself - work up really slowly to some goal, if it takes you a little longer, that's fine.

The other thing, I second finding a good physical therapist. I find it pretty mind-boggling that you've suffered with this problem for so many years, and NOBODY diagnosed it properly! How is that possible? None of the doctors? How come? I don't get it. In any case, a physical therapist is trained to work on such issues - a visit may be well in order. Good luck!

[snodart]

Sounds like good news Tommy. I haven't seen your previous posts about this, so maybe you have already done this; I would strongly recommend making an appointment with a DO (Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Osteopathic_Medicine)) that is good with osteopathic manipulative medicine (most DOs should be). Nothing against the chiropractors, but DOs have much more extensive medical training (Same length of training as an MD).

I have had what I would call minor back pain since high school. X-rays and scans always showed that I had slight scoliosis. My wife (being an MD) finally talked me into seeing a DO that she knows at work. All I can say is WOW. I walked out feeling better than I have ever felt before. She knew exactly where all my problem areas were before I even had a chance to tell her. My back pain has sinced vanished, my spine has begun to straighten, and the tendinitis in my elbows from Jiu Jitsu is no more. I'm due to go back in soon and can't wait. I'm telling you, I floated out of that place. Anyway, you should look into seeing a DO in your area.

Keep up the work!

[Charli]

Strengthen your core. I hurt my back playing rugby, was hard to sit on a sofa, by abs work-out I was able to get past the pain.

Core!

[siniarch]

Yeah Tommy great news again. Seems like you are helping others by inspiring them to exercise.

OldCorpse:
the reason why most doctors didn't diagnose the problem right is most likely because in many cases they are just too specialized in one area to know what's really causing the problem.

Go to a back doctor and he wants to operate the back, when the problem could be in your gluts, etc....

You really want someone that understands bio-mechanics and how your body moves and should move. then have them diagnose it. Have them have enough experience to discern between what is normal and what is normal to you, since every one's body and bone structure is different.
Modern medicine is very geared towards fixing the pain, not fixing the problem from the source. And in many cases it creates other problems.

Have knee surgery to fix your knee. and 10 years later you need hip replacement. That's because you have been compensating for improper movement due to your knee surgery and now need a new hip, and so on and so on. (its not always like this, but many cases end up this way. way more than there should be)

Tommy:
As the guy I recommended suggested, most major injuries at an early age come from lack of moving rather than from moving. As kids and teens we are so active all the time. Later on in life we sit for 8hrs and the expect our bodies to play football on the weekends. That's when we get hurt.

Also, after my back injury I invested in Aeron Chairs. And although they are not the solution to injury and pain, $600 well spent since I sit for so many hours a week. (you don't have to get these, but don't skimp on your chair if you use it alot. It could cost you alot more in medical bills)

Charli:
oh yeah, like Charli said, strengthen the core!!!!!!

[ugafan]

forget exercising and lifting weights, i have a much easier solution. it's called getting fat. since i've put on all this extra weight, it's like i have a soft cushion around my entire abdominal region, including my lower back. whenever i sit down, i can just adjust the back fat until i find a comfortable position.

[Tom Marshall]

>>AWESOME TOMMY!!!

>>This is great news.

>>I'm glad you are feeling better, just remember "Baby Steps" you don't want to hurt yourself.

>>Again, that Physical therapist I recommended, deals with injuries from the source. Meaning he takes a look at your posture, and movement. (bio mechanics) and diagnoses what is causing the problem. Might still be a good idea to check him out.

>>Keep up the good work and feel better.

Luis - I'm definitely considering the therapist you recommended. I know you think very highly of the place and it's hard to find good people when you don't know anyone in the area that's worth anything.

tmnt - I'm definitely being careful with the back exercises. Going for medium weight with high reps, 15 - 20 reps. So yeah, good advice. :)

Hudson - Thanks for the site man, I'll have to take a look. I'm ashamed to say I don't do cardio... I hate it!

Nomis - Thanks, buddy. :beer:

davide - I'll look into that. Never heard of it before and I like to know just about everything when it comes to stuff like this.

mcgeedigital - Thanks, man. I've always been a fitness fanatic. It really sucks when you can't work out on a consistent basis for years at a time. Lifting weights is the ONLY thing that makes me feel better, honestly.

MattinSTL - Thanks for the advice, Matt. I think I actually have that book. My mom bought it for me a while back. I'll have to see if I can find so I can read it.

Jim - I was always the other way around. Standing doesn't bother me too much - though walking usually does... or did... :) I know all about acute back pain. Interesting note about the string attached to your head thing. I think I'll give that a try when I have to sit for a long stretch of time.

Capt - Surgery was never an option for me. I remember finally asking my mom what she though of hers, since she seems to have the exact same issues as I did and they actually started to show up when we were both the same age. Gotta love bad genes... She said she'd never do it again if she had the choice and I'm glad I listened to her. Moms are good for something after all... I'm kidding... :)

DeSica - I've been in your father's shoes... there was a time when all I could do was lay on my back and fight off the tears from the pain... make sure I never ran out of Advil... then it would have really kicked in if I did. I'm sorry that you had to go through it for 7 weeks. When I was in that much pain, I went to a chiropractor 3 times a week until I got to the point where I could limp around and not rely on crutches.

Speaking of crutches... for those of you who have never needed them, count your blessings... they're not fun!

OldCorpse - Thanks. :) Yeah, I'm taking it easy... sort of... with the back exercises at least. I went through the same thing years ago when I actually got better from working out... before the alignment issues really started to cause problems for me. This time around, well for the past 10 years, I didn't have the luck of getting better. Something also screwed me up. I'm just glad I finally figured out why. I've actually asked chiropractors why I had this strange soft spot in the middle of my back and no one was ever able to give me a reasonable answer. Not one person has ever commented on my posture or anything, and I've had my back xrayed several times to see what the issue might have been.

What's odd is that when I was a teenager, I would have back pain every now and then and the thing that made me feel better was to place a pillow under my hips and stretch my back that way. Now that I look back on that, I can see why it helped me. I don't know if I would try that now... it might overstretch the ligaments and leave me in more pain - or maybe not. Stretching is something I really have to start doing though. That's sort of a given.


snodart - Thanks man. My mom had suggested a real doctor as opposed to a chiropractor on several occasions. Someone trained in medical procedures would seem to have more knowledge about human anatomy if you think about it. I think chiropractors are a great thing, but like OldCorpse mentioned, none of them brought up the posture issue, which seems like it would be a basic anatomical issue...

What did the DO do to help you out? Did she give you stretching exercises or something? Tell you how to fix your posture? I'm curious about the advice she had for you. Makes me seriously consider making an appointment...

Charli - I couldn't agree with you more... if anything, it's a good reason to get the "six pack" :D


And if my post gave anyone the desire to work on getting out of pain or to start up an exercise program, then I'm very glad that I took the time to share my experience with everyone... :beer:

[snodart]

snodart - Thanks man. My mom had suggested a real doctor as opposed to a chiropractor on several occasions. Someone trained in medical procedures would seem to have more knowledge about human anatomy if you think about it. I think chiropractors are a great thing, but like OldCorpse mentioned, none of them brought up the posture issue, which seems like it would be a basic anatomical issue...

What did the DO do to help you out? Did she give you stretching exercises or something? Tell you how to fix your posture? I'm curious about the advice she had for you. Makes me seriously consider making an appointment...

The DO that I saw did many of the same things that you might expect a chiropractor to do. In essence, she adjusted me from head to toe. I think she popped and cracked just about every part of my body. I'm sure that my back popped over 30 times. I actually starting laughing when she adjusted my neck because it felt so good. It was all very methodical and in an exacting order according to my body type and problem. The key difference between a chiropractor and a DO is that DOs go through the same length and type of training as an MD. A DO however is trained more in osteopathic medicine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathic_medicine) which includes training in osteopathic manipulative medicine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathic_Manipulative_Medicine) (OMM). OMM is the key here with your situation. The DO that I went to didn't just focus on my back. She sought out the root of the problem and then was able to link other problems that went beyond back pain (shoulder, knees, elbows, etc). With my Jiu Jitsu training, I was starting to have some problems with elbow and knee pain. I thought it was just a sign of passing 30, but ever since seeing the DO, I feel like a new man. No problems since. Of course, I'm sure repeat visits are key also. She did give me several stretches to do and was great to explain exactly what was going on and how one issue leads to another (slippery slope). This is the only DO that I have seen and she is know for being very good at this sort of thing. I can't say if every DO will be the same. Worst case scenario: you will walk out feeling good.

I saw an MD once about my back, he looked at my back, sent me for an x-ray, and then gave me some muscle relaxers and pain killers (gee, thanks). I floated out of the DOs office well informed. She just said that I could take some Motrin if I was sore the next day. From what I can gather (for my situation), it is less about doing exercises and stretches and more about just getting my body in the position that it was meant to be in. I'm sure each case if different of course. Hope that helps.

[Sad Max]

Posture is hugely important.

Glad to hear you're doing so well.

[snowleopard]

This is a great thread, and I'm glad you're doing so much better Tommy.

My girlfriend has had some serious back pain from a ruptured disc, and resulting problems in that region, and gone through all you've all talked about and then some. She's seen MD's, neurologists, DO's, DC's, had corticosteroid shots, MRI's, bone scans, been to message therapists, physical therapists, yoga, and so on. Here are some things we learned that are specific to her situation, but may help others.

The DC that doesn't crack her (rarely) but uses what amounts to acupressure of sorts has helped her a good deal with pain management, but not fixed the problem. He's a wizard at what he does.

A good DO is better than a good DC, but a good DC is also great to have. I had neck problems that more than one DC couldn't fix, but a DO picked it out right away, and gave me specific stretches that helped a great deal. Some DO's are actually MD's, who ended up as Oesteopathic specialists. Hence, the DO on top of the MD. If you can find one of those, you may hit gold. Probably a long waiting list though.

Fitness is key. Lots of gentle stretching. Lots of it. Yoga helps a lot as well. Tommy's mentioning of tightening the core is one my gf knows, and does. Posture of walking, standing and sitting straight are very important.

Gentle weights are also great. But use Franco Columbo's guide: No matter how much weight you are lifting, go slow, and concentrate on technique.

Aerobic fitness helps as well. The less you weigh (within reason) the less pressure and stress on the injured area.

Swimming is the best of both worlds. You stretch, use a lot of muscles, it's fairly aerobic, and low impact. Get in the pool, folks!

I give her massages almost every day, some small, others long. I started out knowing nothing, but now after three years I'm almost her personal LMT and know every muscle, every problem area, all of it. If you've got a support system, you're halfway there.

About two years ago she discovered something that made a big difference. Each night before sleep she ices her key area for about 10-15 minutes. And each morning she heats it up using a microwavable heating pad.

Surgery really is, and should be, a last option. Even her neurologist tells her this. I have an ex-boss that had severe LBP and had surgery. His back pain shifted, and instead of being in near constant pain there, he would end up with waves of sharp shooting pain down his sciatic nerve. Having said that, there are also lots of success stories. I like the thinking of the Bonati Institute. Great link there.

Rock on and stay healthy folks! :thumbsup:

[siniarch]

Also forgot to mentioned what my therapist said. The best posture is no posture. No I don't mean just contort your body in all crazy ways, but he treats people who have been brought up very strict and sit perfectly straight. But do that for hours and it will still be bad for you.
Apparently the muscles start to fuse after 15-mins in on position. so shifting constantly helps your body from tightening up. :)
just a thought.

[cbln]

Some great information here. Especially snowleopard. Ice is your friend. You can ice for 15-20 min then off for the same amount of time.

I also like a gel called Traumed or Traumeal found at health food stores for muscle spasms.

When walking or using the treadmill, if you have a bad back you're better off not using the incline.