I gave the indie dollie a test run last friday

[Deuceofspades]

12/28/07 - adendum: yes! I now have footage to share

http://www.bettatalk.com/dvxuser.htm (http://www.bettatalk.com/dvxuser.htm)

Since their warehouse is only 20 minutes away from me, i decided to go and try the Indie dolly system last friday. I brought my HVX200 and my tripod.

My feelings:

1. It was easy to set-up the tripod on the dollie.

2. The dollie seemed pretty solid, except for the seat which seemed always "lose", like it needed to be screwed on tighter or something. Seemed there was quite a bit of play in it, I was told they are working on that. The seat can be placed in two spots, but there isa little bit of screwing, unscrewing involved to relocate it.

3. I sat on it and had the girl push me but she did not do a very good job at it, resulting in somewhat jerky footage.

4. I then got off of it and just moved it myself and got very smooth footage that way, just pushing the dolly. I even performed a pan while moving the dolly (that will take some practice).

5. I did not care much for the curved rails. They made it harder to get a smooth move.

6. I did like the straight rails.

7. I did not hear any sound at all coming from the dolly. It seemed very quiet.

8. The points where the rail sections connect together seemed seemless. I never felt them or heard them, and footage was 100% smooth.

9. It packs in a couple bags that come with wheels and a handle to drag like a plane suitcase (cool, cause girls can't haul heavy stuff)

10. It is easy to assemble.


ALL IN ALL

I really liked it. Then of course it is the only dollie I have ever tried so I have nothing to compare it with. At around $1,500 seems a good investment. Comes with 12 feet of rails and carry bags included, and the seat.

I just thought some may find this post help[ful. I am curious to get feedback from people who actually OWN one and put it to the test (in action, filming on location, outdoors etc...). Are you happy with it? What other comparable systems shoudl I check next? Before I take the plunge?

As I watched my test footage on my big screen TV I was pleased with the results. I can't imagine filming a full feature without a dolly so I know I am going to buy one and get that PARALAX :).... yeah baby! Any input appreciated.

[JonathanLB]

I love the Indie Dolly, we own one too. It's a great dolly and for a great price -- if you pay ten times as much you won't get better dolly shots. You'll just have a more expensive dolly. I've used the Fisher dolly, for what we do it's not any better than the Indie Dolly. Actually it's worse -- too big, too much of a headache, useless basically.

The only correction I was going to make is the dolly itself doesn't normally come with track, you pay $1,200 for the dolly, $500 or straight track, and $600 for curved track. That's how I bought it, anyway, it all came as separate products.

[MikeWilkinson]

The indie dolly is sweet, especially for the price. Quality results on a budget. I'd say lose the curved track and get some straight track... I've yet to need it myself.

[Deuceofspades]

You are right it dfoesn not come with tracks, you add the tracks and can chose betwwen curved or straight, I believe the later are cheaper. But I think both dolly and straight tracks came a little under $1600.

How did the dolly perform outdoors on uneven terain and what's the tricks you used to make it go smoothly (level the ground)... Please share :).

[Ted Spencer]

2. The dollie seemed pretty solid, except for the seat which seemed always "lose", like it needed to be screwed on tighter or something. Seemed there was quite a bit of play in it, I was told they are working on that.

I have pretty much decided to get the Indiedolly and track early next year, and am particularly interested in your comments on the seat's looseness as you described it. It would seem that it could have a significant impact on the shooter's ability to move the camera smoothly - if the seat is woobly, so might the shots be.

I wonder what your impression was as regards this. Was it wobbly enough to make smooth tilts and pans harder to execute? Also, did they say what they were planning on doing to fix it? And when that fix might be in production?

I'll ask them as well about this, but your first-hand experience as a "neutral party" would be most valuable.

Thanks

[Charlie Anderson]

I've shot a few scenes with the indie dolly so far, as my school owns it and even with wear and tear of a few years of use it still performs great! I'm definitely buying one when I can get it. I'll try to get some footage online when I can of it in action.

[Deuceofspades]

I have pretty much decided to get the Indiedolly and track early next year, and am particularly interested in your comments on the seat's looseness as you described it. It would seem that it could have a significant impact on the shooter's ability to move the camera smoothly - if the seat is woobly, so might the shots be.

I wonder what your impression was as regards this. Was it wobbly enough to make smooth tilts and pans harder to execute? Also, did they say what they were planning on doing to fix it? And when that fix might be in production?

I'll ask them as well about this, but your first-hand experience as a "neutral party" would be most valuable.

Thanks

I don't remember it being a big issue. I am trying to remember how it felt once I sat on the seat. It obviously was less lose once you sit on it. I put my feet on each side of the seat on the dolly base and I did not feel like I was about to fall off or anything. I don't even remember the seat moving while I was sitting on it but I only did one run that way. As I mentioned the only test I did with me on the dolly was done with the saleperson pushing me and she did not do a good job at it, so my footage was not smooth. I then got off and did the rest pushing the dolly myself so I was no longer sitting on it.

To answer with any kind of accuracy i would have to go back and try again. And you know what? Maybe I will, cause I am seriously wanting to buy this.

This time I will bring my own help, and hopefully get him to push me nice and smooth. I'll sit on teh seat and see how it does. And I will use the girl as a model. I'll see if I can do this this week. Friday afternoon might work real well.

[Ted Spencer]

This time I will bring my own help, and hopefully get him to push me nice and smooth. I'll sit on teh seat and see how it does. And I will use the girl as a model. I'll see if I can do this this week. Friday afternoon might work real well.

Thanks for your reply, Faith. I'll look forward to reading your comments when you've tried it again.

[Deuceofspades]

OK, made an appointment for monday. I did ask about the seat and their plans to improve it. I was told that what they will do is have it screw on to the base more tightly, but that this is no priority for them and that they have no target date to have the alteration done. I was told that they have not received any complaints from current owner regarding the seat being the way it is (aka: It dies not pause a problem while shooting), and that is why it is not a priority. I guess they probably want to improve it to avoid the kind of "?" like the one we are discussing right here :).

However I plan to test it to make sure it is , in deed, not an issue while filming. Will let you know. If I can figure out how to render footage for internet I will post some footage too.

Currently using Vegas 8.0 with Raylight and today I rendered a 2 min clip, to avi, no problem looked great. I am however confused about how to render for internet, I tried MGP2 and it looked like crap, I must ave done something wrong (but what?) and need a little time to figure it out. If anyone willing to help me PM me please.

[Charlie Anderson]

H.264 ftw

[Deuceofspades]

H.264 ftw


?????? Was that English or a foreign language??? Pretend I am am 3 year old and explain again? Thank you!

[Charlie Anderson]

Hahaha oh that gave me a good laugh. Sorry I dipped into my "gamer" mindset as I think I was playing WoW at the time.

But in heinsight, FTW = for the win. H.264 is a quicktime plugin that is pretty much the sex for compression, unless you're using ProRes, but I haven't experimented with that yet

[JonathanLB]

We didn't even have anyone sit on the seat of the dolly, there was no need, we just moved the tripod on the dolly, pulling it along, and our first A.C. could still pull focus if necessary but we mainly kept what we wanted in focus and that was that. Sometimes I think people make things a bit too complicated when they don't need to be quite that hard. It was very simple to use, and we didn't move the camera from one direction to the other. Sure, that's necessary I suppose sometimes, but not always or even often.

Also, we used it outdoors on uneven terrain on a desert, sand everywhere, it was still fine. We bought a bunch of wood pieces from the garden department at Home Depot or something to prop up uneven parts and make it as smooth as we could. Again, though, there's no need for the dolly to be perfectly level, you don't have to spend hours leveling it. As long as you're close enough it will glide perfectly and you'll get great shots. It's not rocket science, I promise. ;)

[Deuceofspades]

We didn't even have anyone sit on the seat of the dolly, there was no need, we just moved the tripod on the dolly, pulling it along, and our first A.C. could still pull focus if necessary but we mainly kept what we wanted in focus and that was that. Sometimes I think people make things a bit too complicated when they don't need to be quite that hard. It was very simple to use, and we didn't move the camera from one direction to the other. Sure, that's necessary I suppose sometimes, but not always or even often.

Also, we used it outdoors on uneven terrain on a desert, sand everywhere, it was still fine. We bought a bunch of wood pieces from the garden department at Home Depot or something to prop up uneven parts and make it as smooth as we could. Again, though, there's no need for the dolly to be perfectly level, you don't have to spend hours leveling it. As long as you're close enough it will glide perfectly and you'll get great shots. It's not rocket science, I promise. ;)

Well I have a question: the above seems to indicate to me that you guys simply moved the camera from point A to point B without reframing, correct? Because if you are reframing, you kinda need to sit on the dolly. I tried to reframe while not sitting on it and it becomes difficult, as you are likely to push accidentally the dolly while you are applying pressure on tripod head to reframe.

So how did you guys go about it?

If you are using the dolly integrated in your blocking, as one of the backbone cameras, reframing is pretty much always necessary, say you move from a key frame to another keyframe and now end up in keyframe 2 in an over the shoulder for ex., then you can bet you will have to reframe during your move...

[Deuceofspades]

PS: I currently have my computer upgraded so I don't have anyway to download, edit and upload the footage taken at my second test, but I will soon.

I looked at it and could see imperfections. I guess it depends just how picky you want to be, so I'll let you guys be the judge when I post footage.

[JonathanLB]

Well, we aren't doing narrative filmmaking with it either, though. We shoot mostly music videos or pieces where we are using just parts of dolly shots, so there is no need to reframe anything. We set up all of the dolly track in a sort of elliptical setup, where the ends were curved track and the middle straight track, around the band performing, and the dolly either mostly caught all of the action we wanted it to catch, or we literally moved the tripod in the middle of the dolly shot to capture something else, because in editing of course we're never going to use a dolly shot that long from one end of the band all the way to the other, the video was going to be (and was) very quickly cut, so we were more looking for some nice moving shots around one band member, around several, or around an object (zoomed in), rather than a long establishing dolly shot, for instance.

Different uses call for different techniques, of course, but what we often use the dolly for is not particularly difficult it's just to add nice camera movements to our shots. To have the dolly moving *AND* the camera panning at the same time is not necessary for most of what we've done. We also were primarily using the dolly for wider shots, and when we wanted closer up shots and for the camera to stay on someone, we were just going handheld. But of course if you want a smooth dolly shot let's say focusing on a stationary person, well, yeah, you need to have the camera panning smoothly and staying framed on the person.

[SPZ]

I suggest you guys also look at the microdolly. We've been working with those (borrowed, tough), and its simply perfect. The best thing is, in guerrila shooting, that track can stand any type of abuse people trow at it- people standing on it, motorcicles going over (!), etc.

[JonathanLB]

The setup time on that Micro Dolly is amazing! It looks flimsy, but I bet it's actually very durable because it probably is tough to break since it's so small. I love how easy to use it seems, that would be perfect for run-and-gun filmmaking. I really have enjoyed using the Indie Dolly but the Micro Dolly seems like it would be a nice alternative if you were looking to bring less gear and have setup be even faster. Who knows, we may consider buying it in the future if our rental business takes off a bit more, because clients may want to use something like that too. It's good to have options.

I'm excited because I have a Porta-Jib coming at month's end, so that'll be a fun new toy. At the start of this year I had an XL-1s and a Sennheiser ME-66 boom mic with no boom pole; that was it. Now I have an HVX200 with 4 16 gig P2 cards, XL-2, Porta-Jib, Indie Dolly, 12 Arri lights (150w to 2K), c-stands, flags, grip equipment, a 17" pro monitor, matte box, follow focus, three generators (2x20 amp Hondas and 1x65 amp Honda), M2 35mm lens adapter, 4 35mm Nikon lenses, a decent tripod (Bogen), plus a bunch of extra stuff (apple boxes, walkie talkies, gels, filters for the matte box, etc.). Then next year the RED One, most likely I'll be buying the set of RED Primes, a pretty expensive tripod, all that good stuff. I always love new toys! ;)

[Deuceofspades]

The setup time on that Micro Dolly is amazing! It looks flimsy, but I bet it's actually very durable because it probably is tough to break since it's so small. I love how easy to use it seems, that would be perfect for run-and-gun filmmaking. I really have enjoyed using the Indie Dolly but the Micro Dolly seems like it would be a nice alternative if you were looking to bring less gear and have setup be even faster. Who knows, we may consider buying it in the future if our rental business takes off a bit more, because clients may want to use something like that too. It's good to have options.

I'm excited because I have a Porta-Jib coming at month's end, so that'll be a fun new toy. At the start of this year I had an XL-1s and a Sennheiser ME-66 boom mic with no boom pole; that was it. Now I have an HVX200 with 4 16 gig P2 cards, XL-2, Porta-Jib, Indie Dolly, 12 Arri lights (150w to 2K), c-stands, flags, grip equipment, a 17" pro monitor, matte box, follow focus, three generators (2x20 amp Hondas and 1x65 amp Honda), M2 35mm lens adapter, 4 35mm Nikon lenses, a decent tripod (Bogen), plus a bunch of extra stuff (apple boxes, walkie talkies, gels, filters for the matte box, etc.). Then next year the RED One, most likely I'll be buying the set of RED Primes, a pretty expensive tripod, all that good stuff. I always love new toys! ;)

Ahhhh Sounds like you are splurging :) ... It's amazing how easy it is to cough up major dough when you are excited about filming hehe... I'm on the same boat. In my case I have a lot of pressure because my film is getting so much press / internet attention that now I'd better deliver. Take a deep breath Faith!!

OK, I will check out microdolly, wonder who carries it (has it on the floor) in LA? Anyone knows??

PS: I do not have my PC back yet. Should have it by mid week - will try to post footage as soon as I am able.

[Deuceofspades]

I suggest you guys also look at the microdolly. We've been working with those (borrowed, tough), and its simply perfect. The best thing is, in guerrila shooting, that track can stand any type of abuse people trow at it- people standing on it, motorcicles going over (!), etc.

Does it have a seat (aka: Can one sit on the dolly while moving it)?

[JonathanLB]

Well, it's all business expenses, I mean starting any business costs money and I don't believe in a production company not owning production equipment. That has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. If I actually found out that major production companies didn't own any equipment I would assume they were run by morons. The price of renting equipment isn't worthwhile if you're doing frequent productions. Now a development production company that only shoots features, for instance, that I can understand, why buy Technocranes, 35mm cameras, Fisher dollies (which you can't buy anyway), etc. if you are just developing and producing features? But if you are making music videos or commercials and you don't own the means of production, that's as stupid to me as a restaurant without a blender, an oven, stove, etc. It makes absolutely no sense. We heard from the very start down here, "Well it's a rental market, everyone rents." I think there are a lot of people down here with no business sense, or everyone is afraid to own, because the price of renting commercially is ludicrous, you look for office space they want $700 for 100 sq. feet. I'm going to get into that business sooner rather than later, we've already discussed buying a commercial building. I've never seen a market so out of whack as this one. Since everyone refuses to buy anything, I don't know if it's lack of money or lack of intelligence or what, then the companies that rent anything are in the business of ripping you off. I would say it's more than just a rip off, it's like highway robbery. $9 for a $187 indestructible c-stand per day. Yeah, that makes sense, thanks Mole Richardson! I told them I'd give 'em $5 and that's it, they said fine. But just the fact you have to negotiate everything is exasperating after a while.

If you shoot 2 projects per year, I guess it makes sense to rent if each one only takes a week or less to shoot. But if you shoot 3-4 projects per month even one day each, you better buy, because in 8 months for what you just flushed down the toilet in rental fees you could have owned everything. Also it's funny some people make a big deal about, "Well the rental guys keep everything working and tested and in great shape." This isn't like 1932. This is 2007. The HVX200 is still considered a prosumer camera, i.e. it's built to work. It won't just stop working for no reason as long as you take good care of it. Rental companies don't know anything more about servicing an HVX200 than your average consumer does, so that argument is worthless. And c-stands don't need servicing. Basically when it comes down to it we decided that we'd rather pay everything upfront and own the means of production than making rental companies rich by overcharging for everything.

What's funny is apparently only n00bs and major studios rent from the big guys, because everyone else knows they are a rip off, but the major studios just don't care. Or maybe they are getting incredible breaks that make prices affordable because of the equipment volume rented. That must be the case, I would think, because they're absolutely a rip off for low budget filmmaking.

Why a company as big as Warner Bros. wouldn't own its own massive equipment rental company, I have no idea. Just look at Google -- they used to just have a search engine, did they content themselves with that? Absolutely not. They bought DoubleClick, one of the biggest online advertisers, and they had already launched Google Adsense, then they bought MySpace, and they continue to buy other related businesses. The big studios aren't apparently smart enough to figure out that if companies are making money off them, they should own those companies to prevent the outflow of money. It's not difficult to understand. Eventually if you've been in business long enough you should own virtually every business type that you spend money on. If you're a massive film production company (WB, Fox, etc.) you should own a location agency yourself, that way not only do you keep someone from getting rich off your needs but you make money off other people's needs, you should own an equipment rental company, you should own transportation companies, you should probably even own an aerial helicopter company, etc. They seemed to figure out that you should own your own studio backlots, give them a cookie for that I guess, but I can't understand any business plan that doesn't eventually end in you owning every part of production from start to finish. Telecine houses, editing labs, everything. Nobody should be making money off you, you should be making money off everyone else and giving your main company a discount on services rendered to the parent company. That's the type of vertical integration that they teach in any good business school. The film industry just doesn't seem dominated by people who understand business very well. Of course, most of these studios are now owned by larger parent companies, and that is an example of excellent vertical integration. But that wasn't the innovation of the film companies; that was just market forces that snatched up valuable assets. Who knows, maybe the major studios do own more companies than I know, but I shouldn't hear about Paramount renting out lights from Mole for Indy 4. They should already own all of those lights. I thought that was a joke or something, Paramount is too poor to own all of its own production equipment?! That makes no sense at all.

[Deuceofspades]

Jonathan,

I completely agree with you. I started this film idea/project with ZERO gear. So everyone told me JUST RENT IT. after checking prices of rentals and assessing how many days and how long it will take for me to complete a 130 minute period film filming week-ends mostly, it became obvious that renting was the stupidest idea, money wise.

Also when you own you;

1- know you gear
2- Know where it's been and if it is working well
3- don't have to waste time and gas driving back and forth to rental companies to rent and then return gear
4- If you outdoor shoot gets rained/cancelled, you don't lose money on gear you rented and could not use.
5- if you decide to film something at a moment's notice (ex: a great cloud storm time laps) you can cause the gear is HERE and READY to go.

And I agree when you rent gear you never know if it is going to work right. I experienced that with a shoot at Paso Robles car show - a once a year event. I filmed a dialogue there and the rental adapter for shotgun mic was bad and kept cutting off on and off: Result? Scene not useable and no way to redo it - for another year.

Since owning my own gear I have never run into any technical problems. everything has been bought NEW and of decent quality and I take very good care of it. And it's there for me when I need it.

[Justyn]

Renting is only good if it's a one off or limited use piece of gear. So friggin happy I just got most of my stuff.. Just the hassel of not having to deal with the usually surly and overly bitter rental staff at most places is reason enough to own gear..

[JonathanLB]

I totally agree with you two. There are a lot of advantages you don't even always consider about owning your own gear, until you need to rent something you don't own. It costs more than just the price of renting gear, too, as Deuce said you also have to arrange for pickup at various rental places and usually if you're going to rent a bunch of stuff it won't be at one place. I mean, you'll go to one place for grip and lighting equipment and another for camera and lenses plus accessories. Last time was extremely stressful for us because I was supposed to have everything I needed to shoot except for some lights, except that my order with B&H hadn't shipped because of a communication error and their extremely long Jewish holiday. The guys at Mole Richardson took forever to get our lights and grip equipment together, there was just a lot of screwing around, apparently understaffed or something, and he forgot a few pieces of the order I had to remind him to get, so after what seemed like forever we had only 20 minutes to get to Birns & Sawyer (close to Mole, but awful time of the day to drive) and pickup our follow focus and our reference monitor (these were on order from B&H). I was already annoyed that the monitor was $250 for a day, which is really harsh for a $2,800 monitor. Fortunately Birns & Sawyer wasn't all ticked off we got there just before closing, about 5 minutes before, and they stayed open quite a bit past 5 anyway. There were, however, problems with the order that added up to ONE HOUR of waiting there. Apparently whoever had the follow focus that was supposed to be rented to us (they have many, but this one was due back) hadn't called and hadn't returned the equipment, so they were trying to figure out some way to help us out, which I appreciated. Finally they decided to open a new follow focus package and let us use that, if we promised to be careful with it because they still wanted to sell it later, but that whole process took us an hour.

It ended up we spent about 3 hours or so total driving to Hollywood, going to two rental places, and picking up the equipment. That doesn't include the time we spent already calling them, filling out insurance forms, giving them my life history, figuring out if they did or did not have the equipment we wanted (Mole was out of the type of dimmers my DP wanted, so we got two 2K hand dimmers), and haggling over price. I would say the entire ordeal took us about 6-7 hours for sure, because these guys were not exactly fast about anything.

I am not at all saying that everyone should have the money to go buy everything; the fact is, most people can't afford to just go buy every piece of equipment they need. Even we don't want to buy 1.2Kw HMIs because they're for periodical use and we'd rather just rent them when we need them unless we're seriously using them 3-4 days per month because we have a shoot going almost every day, but I don't see that happening for a long time. Certain things do make sense to rent.

I do think if you have the money, though, and are really serious about wanting to be in the film industry either as a professional or even if you just spend a lot of time doing this as a hobby, it makes perfect sense to own the equipment you will be using commonly or on nearly every shoot. There is this great feeling of power (i.e. freedom) of having what you need to go make a professional project and knowing that if someone contacts you about a spur of the moment filming opportunity you can make it happen without too many headaches.

My problem right now is a logistics one. Not too long ago I wasn't far along with making professional work, so I had my XL-2, my SE-66 boom mic, and a lousy tripod that couldn't hardly be considered even consumer grade ;) I could fit that into the back of my tiny Celica. Now, last shoot with the stuff we rented and what we owned, it barely, barely fit into a large U-Haul van. With what I have bought since then (M2, lenses, Porta-Jib, more light kits) there's simply no way that even a van would hold the stuff comfortably. I could probably make it all fit somehow, but then you have to unload everything before you can shoot anything, and that's really inconvenient and let's be honest requires more grips or PAs available to help out. So we want to buy a truck, but that's the easy part. Where the heck do we park the truck? If I have to park it in an unsecured location, then I might as well not buy one at all. That would involve leaving all of my equipment in secured storage, which we have, and then loading the truck for every shoot we do. If we're going to do that, why pay insurance and parking for the truck plus the cost of buying it when we can rent the truck from U-Haul or wherever else? So the key is finding some secured monthly parking where we can leave the equipment in the truck ready to shoot whenever and on the day of the shoot just get in the truck and drive to the location. Neither one of myself or my business partner own a house. I own a condo, so I have secure parking but you can't fit a truck into the garage. My business partner will probably buy a house sometime in 2008, so we may get a truck then and just back the truck against the garage, add a security camera or something along those lines and it's Burbank so it's pretty safe anyway. But for now I'm at a loss, I couldn't find any parking like I was describing in Los Angeles. We've both searched online a bunch of times and found mainly car parking in unused garages or whatnot.

The more equipment, the more options, but also the more headaches! haha.

[SPZ]

Does it have a seat (aka: Can one sit on the dolly while moving it)?

Nope, no seat. At least the one I used. I really do not know if its an extra.

The microdolly guys HQ is in Hollywood, so you basically are pretty close to them. Why don't you go to their website?

wwwDOTmicrodollyDOTcom (Not posting direct link since its not one of the site's sponsors)

I actually tought about purchasing it for my independent filmmaking, but at 2500 prior shipping to were I am, its just too expensive. But I see they have different prices for US and Non US residents, so maybe you guys can get a much better deal...

Its the Best dolly I've ever seen for guerrila type shooting. Setup in 2 minutes, fits in a tripod bag- wheels, platform and tracks (!). Efficient indeed...

[Ted Spencer]

I've used the "buy what you need and can afford/rent beyond that" paradigm for many years in my recording studio business and it's worked very well for me.

So I own a lot of nice audio gear, but have stopped short of investing in the truly expensive stuff. For example, my main analog audio console, after modifications, cost about $16,000 and sounds excellent. Over the years, music scores for many feature films and documentaries (including "American Splendor", "The Notorious Bettie Page", and many others) have been mixed here (although the latter were done largely in Pro Tools), as well as lots of pop albums and other projects. My clients are happy with the results, and my rates are much lower than major commercial recording studios here in NYC (which, in fairness, is in no small part due to the fact that my studio is in my apartment).

When it's necessary to record a large orchestra however, (as it was with both films mentioned above), or anything else that doesn't fit into my rather modest space, I and my clients go out to one of those major studios for whatever number of days is necessary and record there (I started out in "big" studios, so I'm comfortable working in them as well). It costs my clients many multiples of what I charge here, but it's a relatively short time, and the large space is essential.

Just the console itself at Legacy Studios' scoring stage where we recorded "The Notorious Bettie Page" probably cost them about a million dollars. There's no way I'm ever buying one of those. The studio altogether probably represents an investment of $10 million or so.

Nonetheless, I manage to do better than 90% of my work in my little studio, where I've invested a tiny fraction of that.

So I'm basing my growing HVX200-based film production capability on the same idea. I'll probably level off at about a $40K investment all up, and rent whatever I need above that. Hopefully it'll work out as well for me as the recording studio concept has.

[Deuceofspades]

Nope, no seat. At least the one I used. I really do not know if its an extra.

The microdolly guys HQ is in Hollywood, so you basically are pretty close to them. Why don't you go to their website?

wwwDOTmicrodollyDOTcom (Not posting direct link since its not one of the site's sponsors)

I actually tought about purchasing it for my independent filmmaking, but at 2500 prior shipping to were I am, its just too expensive. But I see they have different prices for US and Non US residents, so maybe you guys can get a much better deal...

Its the Best dolly I've ever seen for guerrila type shooting. Setup in 2 minutes, fits in a tripod bag- wheels, platform and tracks (!). Efficient indeed...

OK, I am due for a trip to Holluywood cause I am going to Birn and Sawyer to bug Peter a bit :) - he is such a cool guy I love him. he has really been taking good care of me, especially since he is a hotrodder himself and classic car collector. Anywhoo, I'll go see that dolly. $2,500 sound steep though, since Indie dolly is only $1600 and HAS A SEAT. Which is a must have, IMHO.

[Charlie Anderson]

Which is a must have, IMHO.
Really? I hate using the seat, makes it very awkward. I prefer to just walk next to my set up, but different strokes eh?

[Deuceofspades]

Jonnathan,

I see your dilemma... AS for me, i think I am going to try and be a good girl and keep a "minimalist" approach. I know it's hard cause you always need more stuff to get those cool shots, but I will try to rely more on creativity, the way I film and composition rather than lots of extra cool gear. This way I can throw everything in my truck and go.

It helps to have a trailer too. I happen to have one 9a super tiny, but fully equipped one) cause I love camping and offroading, and it has come very handy already a bunch of time.

Like shooting on location in the desert with 115F. I had some extras, kids and women so we had them inside the air conditioned trailer. We could get out of the brutal sun and get something cool to drink from the fridge and people used the trailer to change too. there is a mirror and vanity with good light for makeup. And I slept in it over that week-end too. PLUS it doubled as " gear truck" so between the trailer and the Tundra's long bed, I had plenty of room to pile up stuff, even ladders and what nots. but I was never more than 10 feet away from the rig.


Oh here, I'll share a few behind the scenes shots:

Here I am directing the flashback scene

http://www.bettatalk.com/DEUCE%20OF%20SPADES/Copyright%20internet%20images3.jpg



This is my mini caddy, which produced lovely smooth traveling shots that day (better than nothing and fits in your back pocket hehe -
You can see the trailer behind us. It is the smallest fully contained trailer I have ever seen :) and I can park it in front of my garage.

http://www.bettatalk.com/DEUCE%20OF%20SPADES/Copyright%20internet%20images%203.jpg

Women and kids hide from the brutal deadly mohave desert July SUN:

http://www.bettatalk.com/DEUCE%20OF%20SPADES/DSCN0836.JPG


Meanwhile, the hotrodders get their cars ready, painting race numbers on them: the black 1932 roadster in the foreground, which is the star car of the film, is mine.

http://www.bettatalk.com/DEUCE%20OF%20SPADES/website%20SCTA%20flashback%20scene%201.jpg


now we are ready to film:

http://www.bettatalk.com/DEUCE%20OF%20SPADES/Copyright%20internet%20images%202.jpg





PS: I am looking for others interested in getting involved in this film, if anyone in L.A is interested, PM me. I need to put a crew together to begin serious filming in Jan. This is going to end up being a cult film, more than likely. It would be well worth your time.

Thanks for checking it out.




.

[SPZ]

I can actually manage pan and tilt dolly shots without a seat with the microdolly. However, I do need to do some rehearsals first. Its not the easiest of shots, but doable. It works without the seat, as long as you have a person that can control his strengh pushing it...

As for owning your own gear... I'm in a very different place than you guys. Simply put, here, there are no rental houses. This is like the Wild West of production. If I need to rent gear, it has to come from Hong-Kong, which, while being only 30 Kilometres away, its however a whole different "country". Different state of law, different passports, etc. What this means is that I'm hardly a business rental house's target business target. And only the price of insurance and the legal stuff+ the international rates make everything just not economically viable.

Which leaves me no choice but to buy my own gear. me and the other few around here.

Deuce, very interesting subject/ theme for your movie! Looking at those shots reminds me of Mad Max immediately :)

I look forward to seeing it. Keep it up!

EDIT- However, if I was renting (there in the States), I could afford to shoot a feature in a HPX3000 with decent lens, as long as I wrote my script with few locations and had everything well organized to shoot in 4 to 5 days. This would obvioulsy look miles better than a DVX feature. However, nowadays, with the low end HD cameras like the HVX performing so well, and the appearance of 35mm adapters, that basically took out one ofthe biggest disadvantages of these low budget cameras for narratrive filmmaking (the DOF), as long as you have good support gear, like good lighting, sound, and, of course, good talent both in front and behind the camera, you can actually achieve a technically Big Screen acceptable film, very close to a Varicam or even 16mm/ 35mm result.

But, beating on the dead horse for the $^%& time, its all about the story. If its crap, the movie is crap. Simple as that! :)

[Deuceofspades]

Deuce, very interesting subject/ theme for your movie! Looking at those shots reminds me of Mad Max immediately :)

I look forward to seeing it. Keep it up!



Actually this is a flashback scene of a 1954 dry lake racing. This has been a tradition in the States since the 30's. It is at the heart of hotrodding and one of the most majestic location anyone could hope for in my area. I am very fortunate that I have such beautiful things to film for my story. I also have world's best lindyhop and swing dancers and awesome swing and rockabilly bands. I have rare cars donated by museums, car owners etc.. In fact I have classic cars coming out of my nostrils right now (and a few other places I am not at liberty to mention on this respectable board HAHA!)

[Deuceofspades]

MICRO DOLLY is anotehr dolly I am going to test next week. they are right here in Burbank.

However, from a first glance at the product and short conversation with salesrep, i can alredy tell I like indiedolly better.

A few reasons:

1. Price (GOOD reason LOL). This one is $2,700, sobasically $1,000 MORE than indie dolly.

2. Seat. There is no way for the camera operator to be ON the dolly. Only the camera can be moved from A to B, and moving a camera PLUS pan & tilt is pretty hard to do smoothly. heck, even when sitting on the dolly I ofund that panning and tilting was challenging.

3. Looking at the base itself, it looks much more flimzy than that of indiedolly. Microdlly wheels just sit on top of the tracks. One wheel per contact point (3 wheels altogether) Indie dolly's wheels wrap around, so basically you have six wheels for each contact point, two that sit on top of track and 4 more that holds the track from the sides (see photos). Seems a lot better to me.

microdolly wheel system: 1 wheel per contact point

http://www.microdolly.com/images/des_cmbo.jpg


Indie dolly wheel system: 6 wheels per contact point

http://indiedolly.com/imagesfolder/dollyonStrack.jpg

All in all seems Indiedolly has the advantage, but I will be a good girl and do my homework and try the competitor anyways, what the heck. I will do test shots and when I get my puter back I will post both shots filmed with the two systems. let's see how they compare.

[Deuceofspades]

PS: if you are thinking about getting an Indiedolly system do it NOW cause as or Jan 2008 they are raising their prices.

I know what I'm stuffing MY Christmas stockin' with this year hehehehe...

Oh an I forgot to say: My crazy A.D, who is a hardcore hotrodder looked at it and said: let's put an electric motor to it to make it move at set speed evenly across the rails...

Funny thing is: I think he was SERIOUS

Funnier thing is: I think he might have a good idea there... LOL

[SPZ]

PS: if you are thinking about getting an Indiedolly system do it NOW cause as or Jan 2008 they are raising their prices.

I know what I'm stuffing MY Christmas stockin' with this year hehehehe...

Oh an I forgot to say: My crazy A.D, who is a hardcore hotrodder looked at it and said: let's put an electric motor to it to make it move at set speed evenly across the rails...

Funny thing is: I think he was SERIOUS

Funnier thing is: I think he might have a good idea there... LOL

Since I haven't tried the indie dolly, I'm awaiting your review on this to make my personal purrchase decision!

Do post what you think about setup time. This is important for me, and the main plus I found using the microdolly system-that and its portability and lightweight.

Have fun! :)

[DCP]

I have the Indie-dolly (straight and curved track) and I'm very happy with it. My DP does wish that the platform was a little bigger to accomodate his 1st AC, but it works fine just pushing it along. I have footage from the dolly on my website:

www.drawingchalkpictures.com/previews.html

Clips Scene 16 (part 3) and Scene 47 have the dolly. Scene 47 used the straight and curved track.

I really liked how easy it is to setup, even on grass and the results are very good (definitely ups the production quality at a reasonable price).

Todd

[Ted Spencer]

I have the Indie-dolly (straight and curved track) and I'm very happy with it. My DP does wish that the platform was a little bigger to accomodate his 1st AC, but it works fine just pushing it along. I have footage from the dolly on my website:

www.drawingchalkpictures.com/previews.html

Clips Scene 16 (part 3) and Scene 47 have the dolly. Scene 47 used the straight and curved track.

I really liked how easy it is to setup, even on grass and the results are very good (definitely ups the production quality at a reasonable price).

Todd

Very nice looking clips, Todd!

[DCP]

Thanks Ted.

We're in production until May and then I have all the audio production to work on (including recording 16 new songs for the film). It's all worth it in the end.

Todd

[J P]

Not sure why this thread is in the HVX section, but...

I've used the indie dolly twice now, so I can assure you it is a piece of crap.

*It is the most confusing thing to build. Without a manual, it will take two intelligent people no less than 45 minutes to assemble.

*The track sections come apart. Unless I am missing something, there really is next to nothing to prevent the tracks from separating.

*Forget about riding it. It is not built to withstand a human operator. The only stable way I have found to operate it is by having the camera operator walk along side of the dolly and push the dolly with the tripod head.

To be fair, I am used to using real dollies. I understand that the Indie Dolly inexpensive, and meant for low-budget productions, but that in itself doesn't make it any good.

[Charlie Anderson]

*It is the most confusing thing to build. Without a manual, it will take two intelligent people no less than 45 minutes to assemble.
I had the same problem at first, then I looked online at a picture then got it. After setting it up once I could set it up and be able to shoot in less than 10 minutes, and I sucessfully did that on 3 occasions. Always do a test run before you shoot to make sure you can be able to set up and run equipment effectively.



*The track sections come apart. Unless I am missing something, there really is next to nothing to prevent the tracks from separating.
There's velcro straps to secure each section together via the metal supports running perpendicular to the tracks. Once you have those in you can pretty much bet on them never coming apart.[/quote]



*Forget about riding it. It is not built to withstand a human operator. The only stable way I have found to operate it is by having the camera operator walk along side of the dolly and push the dolly with the tripod head.
I agree with you here, I am just an average size guy and the dolly struggles with me on the dolly. You really need someone petite to man the camera if you want to ride the dolly[/quote]



To be fair, I am used to using real dollies. I understand that the Indie Dolly inexpensive, and meant for low-budget productions, but that in itself doesn't make it any good.Given what it is it's pretty darn impressive. The indie dolly I used has been at Towson University for 2 years now and it STILL functions perfectly, even after being manhandled by dozens of film students who don't necessarily know what they're doing. I really think it stands the test of time, but that's just my opinion.

[Deuceofspades]

Not sure why this thread is in the HVX section, but...

I've used the indie dolly twice now, so I can assure you it is a piece of crap.

*It is the most confusing thing to build. Without a manual, it will take two intelligent people no less than 45 minutes to assemble.

*The track sections come apart. Unless I am missing something, there really is next to nothing to prevent the tracks from separating.

*Forget about riding it. It is not built to withstand a human operator. The only stable way I have found to operate it is by having the camera operator walk along side of the dolly and push the dolly with the tripod head.

To be fair, I am used to using real dollies. I understand that the Indie Dolly inexpensive, and meant for low-budget productions, but that in itself doesn't make it any good.

Well I completely disagree with everything you said.

1. I did not have a manual and put it together the first time without any problems. the next day I broke it down and took it to the DVX user LA meet. I put it back together in 1/2 the time it took the first time. 4 hours later I broke it down and took it home. the next day I was asked to bring it to a fellow dvxuser shoot who needed it. So I put it together again, and it took no time at all. So, no, you do not need a high IQ to figure it out quick.

2. the tracks are kept together with the straps, which are very solid velcro. So far no problem there on my end. I have not tried it on rought terrain yet, but on carpet or even patio relatively uneven cement saturday it stayed together solid.

3. At the dvx user meet severtal people rode it. "Uslatincontent" is probably 6 feet tall, he is lean though but he is certainly a lot heavier than I am and the dolly performed beautifully. At the shoot yesterday, david rode it and had no problem. I would not put a 300 lbs man on it though. The dolly is very stable, if you have the $175 additional platform (I got it).

Now I am sure that compared to high end $$$$$$$ dollies like the ones you use, this lower end dolly could be labelled as a "piece of junk" but to us indie filmmakers who do not have a bank attached to our hip, let me just say that this will make beautiful shots for the money.

Note that I have nothing to do with indie dolly and I am speaking my mind freely, saying what I think. I'll say it like it is.

So far the only drawback I have found is that the operator is not seated behind the camera when doing a straight forward push. So if the camera is aiming the same direction as where the tracks are pointed, you are sitting on the side and it becomes more difficult to do the shots. So reframing, panning that way is difficult. I might try to rig up one more seat location for me to sit in the center of the tracks behind the camera. Since I only weigh 115lbs, I can add hardware and probably be A-OK. With the help of my hotrodder friends, who customize and weld for a living, i am sure we can rig up something so I have better access for those shots. I'll let you know if we are able to come up with a solution.

In closing, for those who do not have a big budget, this dolly is well worth looking into.

[JonathanLB]

Not sure why this thread is in the HVX section, but...

I've used the indie dolly twice now, so I can assure you it is a piece of crap.

*It is the most confusing thing to build. Without a manual, it will take two intelligent people no less than 45 minutes to assemble.

*The track sections come apart. Unless I am missing something, there really is next to nothing to prevent the tracks from separating.

*Forget about riding it. It is not built to withstand a human operator. The only stable way I have found to operate it is by having the camera operator walk along side of the dolly and push the dolly with the tripod head.

To be fair, I am used to using real dollies. I understand that the Indie Dolly inexpensive, and meant for low-budget productions, but that in itself doesn't make it any good.

The Indie Dolly is excellent, maybe your definition of two intelligent people is different from mine. I don't consider people who watch NASCAR and drink Milwaukee's Best to be intelligent ;)

I kid, I kid. But all joking aside, the Indie Dolly is excellent. I've used "real" dollies, I think they are pretty crappy to be honest, hulky, don't do anything more than the Indie Dolly does, basically inconvenient from every perspective. I can setup the Indie Dolly myself in ten minutes, no problem. And the price is a great bonus, too.

The Fisher dolly is supposed to be so great, but these idiots act like their dolly is worth more than my car. It's a joke. A Chapman dolly is supposed to be like $60,000 or something? Are you kidding me? I could have that same POS built in China for $800 tops. It's not that impressive. I prefer easier to setup, easier to transport dollies.

Also as a sidenote every time I've seen someone use one of the big, pro dollies they haven't been able to get a stable enough shot and ended up basically using the dolly as a glorified tripod. We were on a Cybill Shepherd shoot and they were all worried about the dolly not being stable enough -- inside of a studio. It was a piece of crap, to be honest. My Indie Dolly could have gotten that shot in five minutes. There's also the fact the DP was so old he didn't understand the basics of post-production -- who cares if your image isn't perfectly steady, it's called MOTION, you can stabilize that shot and maintain 95% of the image in like 2 minutes, and they were shooting on the F900 for TV, nobody is going to notice that 5%. Sheesh, n00bs I swear.

[Deuceofspades]

*********NEWS FLASH*********

I called indiedolly today cause I had some questions about using the dolly in it's narrow configuration (that's anotehr thing I like, the fact that you don't have to use the track at their full width, you cna make the tracks narrower, to fit a narrower doorway for exemple).

Anywhoo I was told that they are working on an additional accessory that will be an expension of the platform so the operator can sit more centered within the rails (Geese, I was just talking about that in my last post)... I was told it may not take too long to be released (2 months?) but not sure what price will be yet.

I am definitely going to check it out when they have it ready.

[DCP]

*********NEWS FLASH*********

I called indiedolly today cause I had some questions about using the dolly in it's narrow configuration (that's anotehr thing I like, the fact that you don't have to use the track at their full width, you cna make the tracks narrower, to fit a narrower doorway for exemple).

Anywhoo I was told that they are working on an additional accessory that will be an expension of the platform so the operator can sit more centered within the rails (Geese, I was just talking about that in my last post)... I was told it may not take too long to be released (2 months?) but not sure what price will be yet.

I am definitely going to check it out when they have it ready.

Thanks for the update. I'll definitely be looking at adding that to my dolly once it's available.

Todd

[Deuceofspades]

INDIE DOLLY TEST FOOTAGE IS UPLOADED !!

Got my PC back and last night I was able to view and quickly edit my Indie Dolly test footage (at long last).

Basically this footage was done in the warehouse of Indie Dolly headquarter's in Burbank, I rolled camera as I tried different things, like pushing and pulling and reframing, crabbing slow and fast, left to rigth and right to left, also tried crabbing and stopping into a tight shot on girl's face. I then tried more ambitious moves such as rotating while crabbing... I had never used or been on a dolly before.

You will notice most of the shots are tentative since neither me nor my friend who pushed the dolly knew what we were doing. But you will also notice that despite all, the footage looks gracious, artistic and has a certain beauty to it.

I also added at the end some footage done after I bought the dolly when I took it to the DVXuser meet in LA, a day later. Those shots (with French/American actor Daniel Lafitte in them) were done with just me pushing or pulling dolly and the last shots (reflection of Daniel in glass door) were also done alone by pushing or pulling the dolly and reframing at the same time, with no help from anyone. You will notice those shots are not perfect, but considering how I did them, it is a wonder they came out as good as they did.

MODELS: Lisa of Indie Dolly and Daniel Lafitte (Daniel is available for music videos, commercials, shorts and films if any of the local filmmakers are interested in using him PM me. He is very reliable, dedicated and currently looking for exposure so he will probably donate his time for the right film or short project).

MUSIC: Jai Uttal (www.jaiuttal.com (http://www.jaiuttal.com))

SEE THE FOOTAGE HERE:

1. best version: http://www.bettatalk.com/dvxuser.htm (http://www.bettatalk.com/dvxuser.htm)

2. faster but crappy res version (in case above will not play for you ) http://www.dailymotion.com/FaithGranger/video/6534679 (http://www.dailymotion.com/FaithGranger/video/6534679)

[weixiang623]

was it just me? or was the footage really shaky?

[Deuceofspades]

was it just me? or was the footage really shaky?

No, it's you, you probably just drank another double espresso :thumbup:. Just messing with you!

Footage far from perfect but not 'real shaky', maybe the streaming video is hanging? the crabbing shots should be smooth, while some other were not. remember we only did I try at each movement so we were not going for perfection. We got on teh dolly rolled it in every which directions and rolled tape. This is raw footage, unedited except for the transitions between each pass. The crabbing shots are smooth, anytime I reframed, it was all over the place LOL. especially trying to rotate while sitting on the dolly... that's real hard to do and would take a lot of practice. :) But hey, we tried!

[SPZ]

Very good footage! I'M SOLD! However, how long is the setup time, deuce? What I liked about the microdolly was the speed of setup. 5 minutes and done.

[Ted Spencer]

Very good footage! I'M SOLD! However, how long is the setup time, deuce? What I liked about the microdolly was the speed of setup. 5 minutes and done.

Take a look at the setup video clip on their site. It's edited a bit, but you'll get a pretty good idea of what it involves, including leveling it with wood blocks for an outdoor setup.

I'll be ordering mine soon.

[Deuceofspades]

Very good footage! I'M SOLD! However, how long is the setup time, deuce? What I liked about the microdolly was the speed of setup. 5 minutes and done.

So far I have put it together and broken it down 3 times, I got faster each time. It will be more than 5 minutes for sure, but probably no more than 20 min max. With teh help of an assistant at a recent shoot that rented my dolly, we put it together probably in 15 min. But the guy had never done it before so I had to teach him how. I suspect 15 min or a little under with 2 people doing it would be what it would probably take. Really not bad.

HOWEVER this does not include levelling the tracks. I worked on fairly even surfaces so I did not botehr levelling. (lumpy, thick carpet was one, and it did OK). I am sure that if you shoot outdoors say on grass etc it might take a hilw to dial it in.

I have not yet worked ion that. and need to buy the wood and start going to the park and set-it up as a test/practice see how it works out.

[Deuceofspades]

QUESTION:


Would you guys who have used this system or any small dolly systems share your tips/ tricks/ methods to levlling the tracks when outdoors?

It is said you need many pieces of wood and also shims, but I was wondering whether also have 4 long pieces, that would support the tracks, would not help.

So you would put the tracks on 2 or 4 big pieces of flat, strong wood and then level the wood using the shim under those large steady pieces...

thats' my idea,. who is doing that or has tried it? Feedback please?