Pardon my ignorance: Trailers

[x-angel]

I seem to take it that trailers are not allowed for the fest...correct?

[Luis Caffesse]

As far as I know, that is correct.
Only stills and/or posters.
But no footage of any kind.

At least, thats the way its been in the past.

[Blaine]

Luis is correct. No footage of any kind. Stills and screen captures are okay, though.

[x-angel]

ok...thats what I thought. Thanks for the clarifcation.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

I thought footage was acceptable as long as it is footage that will NOT be seen in the entry. Couldn't you shoot a trailer separately with that in mind?

[Ki-Ki]

Forehold. The holy Jack has the information below.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

NOT ALLOWED
right.
no moving footage from your project, i.e., no trailers or sample scenes


ALLOWED
clips of BTS including tests is ok.
(no one has gotten into the gray area of unused takes, etc, and I wouldn't be the first)

stills from the final, allowed, either ungraded or graded

preview of original music is allowed


theoretically you could cut together a Ken Burns still trailer for your short with only stills zoomed in or out of with V.O. and music, but I would ask first.

[cinealma]

I think it would be cool if you can release a trailer AFTER your film has been submitted/uploaded. Trailers can be a really good way to "market" to viewers here. This might also push people a little bit to get their film uploaded earlier, too. You could also put a limit on them, like no more than 30 seconds.

Just a thought.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

I think it would be cool if you can release a trailer AFTER your film has been submitted/uploaded. Trailers can be a really good way to "market" to viewers here. This might also push people a little bit to get their film uploaded earlier, too. You could also put a limit on them, like no more than 30 seconds.

Just a thought.
That would be awesome! Good practice as well.

Doesn't hurt to ask...

Mike

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Forehold. The holy Jack has the information below.

Holy Jack doth not have the 10 commandments. Only the anointed Barry_S may presenteth them.

As always folks with experience are only giving you a "safe bet" based on past history, Barry_S and Larry R are the authorities and until rules have been officially posted remember that none of this is official.

For ex. 1st three fests there was absolutely no promotion of any kind and then suddenly there was.

Also there used to be no stills allowed for the 1st fest and a half, even after we opened, then suddenly it was allowed.

So while things become more and more set, remember almost all fests had been 6 min then we went back to 5 for the last fest and now we are back to 6 ... again, the advice given here is highly likely, but not yet firm.

[NC17z]

I would think that presenting a trailer prior to the fest deadline... Say two weeks in advance would be fun...
Jack, help me out if I'm wrong here,
Creating Story, Log line, Script, Poster, Movie/Short is all part of the film making process as well as the marketing process A TRAILER. I believe that it would also increase the challenge/competition in some ways too...

[x-angel]

I feel tha tI have opened a can of worms here...that was not my intention.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

For this contest in this community at this time, the balance between marketing and art has been set at everything but a trailer.

It used to be that no marketing was allowed even after the fests opened. Their was your discussion thread and that was it.

We've found that pre-pimping is good for the fests however - it drums up excitement , some films may become more anticipated than others, but there is a cap on how far that goes.

So now there is some more excitement and anticipation and filmmakers can share their progress and as ask for help with troubles before the fest begins.

Also its a bit more fun because you only get to shake the presents before its time to open them (stills, BTS) and not actually peak under the lid (trailer).

But they want the films to speak for themselves as much as possible.

So again the balance that seems to work for us, at least right now, is stills, bts, discussion, no footage. Creates excitement and still puts a large onus on the film itself because you can't really judge by that other stuff. True you can have a good trailer and bad movie or vice versa, but the trailer is much more influential than the others stuff.

Also remember that these fests aren't necessarily meant to be microcosms of the industry or or non-virtual film fests. They are something run by and for the community to serve the needs of its members whose experience levels vary greatly.

[Barry_S]

Jack's done a good job articulating some of the concerns I've had regarding promotion. Ultimately, I'd like everyone to be judged on their actual films, and not their mighty promotion machines. Some filmmakers are very saavy about marketing and promotion, but truthfully, I'd like to factor that out. Hollywood may be all about a 15 million dollar marketing campaign for a piece of garbage, but I don't see the parallel with making a 6 minute short film. It's all I can do to discourage people from trying to make a mini feature and totally missing the boat. Rolling two minutes of credits in a five minute film is bad enough--these aren't features.

Opening the fest up to trailers just seems like it's encouraging the fantasy of the 6 minute feature and rewarding promotional rather than core filmmaking skills. The films should stand on their own and if you (hopefully) submit them to juried festivals--no one will ever see a trailer for your short film. The short film is a valid art form in and of itself and the filmmaking skills required are relevant enough to long-form filmmaking without adding a marketing exercise.

Also, does anyone else think a 2 minute trailer revealing 1/3 of the footage of a six minute film is blowing your load? Do you really want to see a bunch of people only watching your trailer and skipping the film?

That being said, I know you guys want to have fun with this and I do try for some balance, so what do you think about allowing teasers to be posted in forum threads. Not trailers, but teasers. Say a 30 second teaser that doesn't include any footage from the actual film, but could include brief footage of your actors or a quick location shot--more like a film version of a poster. This would be strictly optional and filmmakers could only post one version and no editing new versions once it's posted. Anyone crossing the line into a trailer or pseudo-trailer would face some serious wrath.:violent5:

[Weston]

What separates a teaser from a trailer...besides length? Usually both contain footage from a movie.

I understand there is to be no footage from our films at all but I'm confused as to what we could do to make it trailer-like and incur wrath. If no footage from the film is included what would cross that line? How do we make a moving film poster and not allow it to be trailer-like?

And I thought we were allowed to show locations and actors in behind the scenes videos before. Norms bts video for "R.E.M." showed both.

[Jason Ramsey]

Personally, I think that just complicates things.

It's easy right now. No footage from your film prior to the festival going live, and no promotion of your film outside of DVXuser until after the festival.

There are already a million questions over the few rules we have now, adding a you can have a teaser, but it has to be this, etc just adds too much mud to the equation in my humble opinion.

The hype as it is now, is cool. It's a bit of a taste for developing a strategy in marketing, but it's not the focus. The focus is/should be on the final films. Watching and responding.

My opinion anyways.
Jason

[Mark Johnson]

Good points succinctly made, Barry and Jack. I don't think promotion in these fests really gives anyone an advantage BECAUSE of the limitations that make certain each film is seen fresh and for the first time on opening night. However, the buzz in the threads IS helpful to drum up interest and participation in the festival itself. Trailers per se would seem counterproductive and, as Barry points out, pretty ludicrous for 6-minute shorts.

Clearly, with the current system you really don't need to do any promotion at all as the final product speaks for itself. God help us if Jack and the dream team ever decide to compete in these contests again! We are fortunate to have a viewing audience that largely seems committed to watching every film entered. As long as we have that sort of devotion people can spend their time making films and not really worrying about promotion.

For my part, I thoroughly enjoy the social aspects of the threads and I fully realize that our somewhat sophomoric and politically incorrect thread is not exactly a well-crafted promotion machine. We're just having a hell of a good time and truly do appreciate the many friends we have here on the boards.

We do take very seriously the craft of filmmaking and we try to admit candidly when we fail to hit the mark or make mistakes. In addition to the ribald jokes and satire on the thread we do try to include content occasionally that might be useful or of interest to others.

Having said all of that, I think 30-second teasers would be a good experiment that will probably be pretty entertaining. Most of all, I want to say thanks to you guys for putting together a system that works and keeps so many people involved.

[Barry_S]

Ok, no teasers. I think if people are confused between teasers and trailers it's just a recipe for disaster. I opened the door a crack and I got a glimpse..of something...scary. :) Mark--your point is well taken, we want people to have fun, but seeing Jason and Weston's responses makes me think the process would be hard to manage without too many questions and accusations of rule violations. We've got threads, we've got posters, we've got BTS--and we've got the films--that's enough.

BTW--full rules tomorrow night.

[Mike@AF]

I vote no to the teasers. Better to focus on the core filmmaking. That's what's more important here. Putting a teaser up is still marketing. Leave it to the posters and still shots. That should be enough for a 6 minute or less short.

I have a question for you tho, Barry. When are we going to see the rules? It's difficult to finalize a script and go into pre-production and production without knowing all the rules.

[Mike@AF]

Ahh my answers while I typed my question.

[Weston]

Haha...sorry if I was part of what was scary on the other side of the door. Those are just questions I could think of right away...and I'm sure other people would have alot more. I think it would be hard to have a definate thing the teasers could be. May we still have bts though ...such as what Jason posted earlier for his film?

[Jason Ramsey]

BTS is still all good, and it's a fun way to market in my opinion. And, I always thought Mark's Variety stuff was just too perfect.

Later,
Jason

[Luis Caffesse]

BTW--full rules tomorrow night.

Good to know
:thumbsup:

[Sprocketboy]

Why even consider doing a trailer for a 6 minute short? The average trailer is about a third that length. Maybe the DVX team might consider TRAILER FEST in the future.

I like the way things are set now for the DVX festivals. I vote no for teasers and trailers.

[x-angel]

I really did open up a can here... I really meant teaser... not trailer...forgot about the time differential.

Barry...didn't mean to add to the confusion. This is the first fest I am really starting to get involved in, and although I am pretty sure my work will not compare to these other guys, I am just experimenting with my first attempt at telling a compelling story in a short amount of time, so I wanted to pose a question to get clarifcation. My apologies if you got flood with pm stating "WTF is x-angel talking about....? A Trailer for 6 minutes?!?!" :)

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

That being said, I know you guys want to have fun with this and I do try for some balance, so what do you think about allowing teasers to be posted in forum threads. Not trailers, but teasers. Say a 30 second teaser that doesn't include any footage from the actual film, but could include brief footage of your actors or a quick location shot--more like a film version of a poster

Wow! And I thought this was pretty clear. No more than 30 seconds, no footage from the actual entry.

Oh well, maybe next time.

Thanks for considering it!


Mike

[Ki-Ki]

Originally Posted by Barry_S http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=1099887#post1099887)
That being said, I know you guys want to have fun with this and I do try for some balance, so what do you think about allowing teasers to be posted in forum threads. Not trailers, but teasers. Say a 30 second teaser that doesn't include any footage from the actual film, but could include brief footage of your actors or a quick location shot--more like a film version of a poster


I think that would be freaking awesome personally.