Your opinion of Pixar.

[Gord.T]

A casual poll of opinions on Pixar. I'm mixed myself. Iceage2 lacked scope in the story but I love thier shorts and most of their movies.

[Nic Aragon]

i wont go into each movie, but i love them as well. Ice Age 2 wasnt worth purchase, but i dont purchase anything actually :P Netflix

[Jason Ramsey]

Haven't seen a pixar flick in a while actually... though I'm sure I'll see many as the kid(s) get older....

Personally, I thought Pixar was pretty revolutionary in terms of animation. I've always 'respected' their animation more as well b/c they actually animate all the facial expressions rather than using mapping techniques like Dreamworks uses for example. Though Shrek was goreous... I just respect the fact that the facial animations are not motion captured.

[Gord.T]

i wont go into each movie, but i love them as well. Ice Age 2 wasnt worth purchase, but i dont purchase anything actually :P Netflix

They dont yet have an icon for the look on my face but it's close to :)
with a smirky grin on one side and stretched on the other :\ or something , ha.
I agree.

[Gord.T]

Haven't seen a pixar flick in a while actually... though I'm sure I'll see many as the kid(s) get older....

Personally, I thought Pixar was pretty revolutionary in terms of animation. I've always 'respected' their animation more as well b/c they actually animate all the facial expressions rather than using mapping techniques like Dreamworks uses for example. Though Shrek was goreous... I just respect the fact that the facial animations are not motion captured.

They are and have been for some time the leaders in modern animation and are to me the benchmark outside of indie creative pursuits. Last I heard was 12 Academy awards not including shorts films and I think that was 2 years ago.

Their story telling and directors of photography are worthy of those awards.
And 20 years in the biz.

[Barry_Green]

The Ice Age pics weren't by Pixar...

[Nic Aragon]

barry hella posted this in the wrong thread first! ;)

[Gord.T]

The Ice Age pics weren't by Pixar...

Could you elaborate?

[Jason Ramsey]

They were Dreamworks pics weren't they?

Later,
Jason

[Brandon Rice]

They were from Dreamworks Animation..

Pixar films are fantastic! My faves are Toy Story 2, The Incredibles, and Monster's INC.

[akajack]

Pixar gives the people what they want and it works for the kids and for the adults. When a seven year old (my nephew) and an adult (me!) can laugh at the same scene - even though it's for different reasons - it's family magic.

[Barry_Green]

Could you elaborate?
Well, you asked what people thought about Pixar, and then you mentioned that Ice Age 2 wasn't that good, and I'm pointing out that Pixar didn't do Ice Age or Ice Age 2.

[Jason Ramsey]

I think Bug's Life is still probably one of my favorites to this day.... Just all around.

Later,
Jason

[Gord.T]

Blue Sky Productions, 20th Century Fox...okay there are some details here.
(Jeesh, can't get anything buy you guys). Obviously the animators and such are related. Let me dig a little further, I'm sure Renderman and all of those guys are buddies and stuff. Anyways, not to get into a big tech thing, lets throw in Dreamworks and the rest of their buddies.

My favorites are also the same as Brandons. And may I add Scrat with the nut is a tru star.

[Brandon Rice]

Bug's Life is good... feels a little like a departure from the normal Pixar format... but it works... Flick and Hopper... good times. hehe

[Brandon Rice]

Fave Dreamworks flick is Madagascar....

[Gord.T]

Was Dreamworks ever affiliated with Pixar somehow?

[Jason Ramsey]

no. Pixar was owned by Disney for a while though.

Dreamworks Animation is part of Dreamworks which is the company Speilberg started up.,. Now owned by..... one of the big companies... Can't remember who.

Later,
Jason

[Gord.T]

no. Pixar was owned by Disney for a while though.

Dreamworks Animation is part of Dreamworks which is the company Speilberg started up.,. Now owned by..... one of the big companies... Can't remember who.

Later,
Jason

Ahhhh. I'll have to pay more attention. I thought somehow it was all and the same. The characters looking so similar and all. Now I'll have to go back track and re-examine those movies and see where the diferrences are.
Shows how much I thought I knew :) <--humbled face.
-Thanks.

[Jason Ramsey]

The tell tale for me (especially the earlier ones) is in the facial animation....

[eignacio]

I've been watching every Pixar flick at the theaters since Finding Nemo. Haven't seen Toy Story 1 and 2 yet though.

My fav is probably The Incredibles.

[Gord.T]

Yeah I thought Pixar had the most realistic animation. What with the chessplayer short and all. Then I noticed a lack of detail in the recent movies---which happens to be Ice Age although the eyes were the same, eyebrows, ect. It's pretty close to call for me right now officially but I do recall seeing a slight difference in facial detail. Again I'll have to go back and rewatch those again.

//Yep I love the Incredibles. Great story.
//Alright, I'll sit back and let people comment. Have a good night folks.

[Jason Ramsey]

If you've just started with Finding Nemo, you have missed quite a few.

Late,r
Jason

[Kirk Gillock]

Toy Story 2 and Finding Nemo are film perfection. "Es-ca-pe!!" And the animation in CARS was beautiful.

Pixar is the best. Hands down. Can't wait for their upcoming film WALL-E.

[eignacio]

Oh, i caught up with A Bug's Life and Monsters, Inc. on DVD. Finding Nemo is when I started watching them on the big screen.

[Batutta]

I think Pixar is in a league of its own, frankly. My least favorite film of theirs was Cars. I was never a fan of the Shrek movies at all, which were from Dreamworks Animation. I found them tiresome and kind of junky. Blue Sky did the Ice Age movies for 20th Century Fox, which were so so...While I love great 3d animation, and The Incredibles and Ratatouille are gorgeous to look at, watching The Lion King with my daughter recently reminded me how good traditional cel animation can be, and its sad that it's been all but abandoned by the major animation studios.

[Gord.T]

I watched Rataouille a few times this week and found the modelling in all of the scenes quite extensive. The facial expressions were pretty dramatic. Lots of use of eye brows and upper and lower eye lids. I'll be looking to get Lion King again just because of your comment.

Just a side note. Have you seen (not animated) Mocha's first brocholli.?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=r0E-0ntoNWo

[Weston]

I think Pixar is far superior to Dreamworks and all the other animation companys.

Rattatuille was one of the best movies I've seen this year.

[traviscool]

Pixar is amazing they are able to write stories that can be appreciated by anybody of any age and unlike DreamWorks Animation or Blue Sky they almost never stoop to crude humor (not that that's not funny in moderation). I love DreamWorks Animation, Shrek was great but Pixar films just have so much more heart.

Ok just to clear some things up- the Ice Age movies were made by Blue Sky studios and distributed by Fox.

Pixar was founded by George Lucas some 20 years ago, and then about 17 years ago it was bought by Steve Jobs. They signed a 3 picture deal with Disney in the early 90's, I think it was after Toy Story that they extended it to 5 then 7 or 8. Right before Cars was released Pixar was purchased by Disney, however everybody in charge remained in charge and they still had power over most or all creative decisions.

[krestofre]

Story is what sets Pixar ahead of the pack. These guys are comitted story tellers. Watch any of the special features on any of their films. They go through an extensive script writing process. The hammer out every detail before the film going into production and they're not afraid to change something if it doesn't work. They're the only studio that I'm aware of that does this. Story trumps all at Pixar. Even if it's going to cost a ton of time and money to do it this way or make that change, if everyone agrees that it serves the story better, then it gets done.

They also encourage their people to tell stories that matter to them, not just stuff they think will be big at the box office or will garner and Oscar nod. Cars is a perfect example of this. If that project had been in anyone elses hands it would have been 90 minutes of racing footage with the main conflict being who gets to the finish line. Pixar put a race at the beginning, a race at the end, and in between there's 80 minutes of dialog and character development.

I don't like everything Pixar does, but I respect everything Pixar does.

[Steve Strickland]

I think I get more excited for a new Pixar film than my four year old daughter.

People always look at me funny when I explain how deep the themes of Toy Story 2 are. A children's film that mixes humor, action, and a exploration of mortality. Genious!

My wife and I saw Finding Nemo when she was a few months pregnant. We were both sniffling by the beginning of the opening credits. :)

[Capt Quirk]

I have always enjoyed Pixar, before they worked with Disney and after. There was some hard feelings between the two, hence the jabs in Shrek. And if you really liked Lion King, you have to watch Lion King 1 1/2. Same story, told from Timon and Pumba's point of view.

[Gord.T]

Up until last night I thought some of these movies were Pixars which
explains a few things. So today I compiled a list.
(Boy I hope THIS is right.)

Pixar: Toy Story, A Bugs Life, Monsters Inc, Finding Nemo, The Incredibles, Cars, Rataouille

Dreamworks: Antz , Shrek , Shark Tale , Madagascar, Over the Hedge, Flushed Away, Shrek the Third, Bee Movie

Blue Sky Studios: Ice Age , Robots

//Forgot The Polar Express - Dreamworks.

[traviscool]

Yep you got it!

[Andrew Brinkhaus]

Toy Story 3 & 4, coming soon from Pixar! Should be fun.

[Kirk Gillock]

Actually, Toy Story 3 has already been made and released on DVD (in Laos). :)

http://www.isarapix.com/pix70/sm/1170845336.jpg (http://www.isarapix.com/my.php?isara=pix70/pre/1170845336.jpg)

I tried explaining to the shop owner that the movie hadn't even been made yet, but she just smiled and offered to lower the price. ha!

[Capt Quirk]

So? How was it?

[Kirk Gillock]

It was ok. Basically the same as Toy Story 2..... except they all spoke Lao. :)

I think they have Titanic 2 if anyone wants it. lol



So is it illegal to pirate a movie that doesn't even exist? hmmmm Or maybe the video pirates can sue Pixar for piracy when Toy Story 3 finally is made. "Hey, you stole the idea from our Lao movie." hahaha!

[William_Robinette]

The Incredibles was absolutely amazing, as was Toy Story and Finding Nemo. These are my three fav hands down.

[Cheesesailor77]

The Incredibles is one of my favorite films period.

I love how this started as a semi Pixar bashing thread, until the OP realized who Pixar was ;)

Pixar are some of the most talented filmmakers in the world. period.

[Jared Meyer]

They were Dreamworks pics weren't they?

Later,
Jason


They were from Dreamworks Animation..

Pixar films are fantastic! My faves are Toy Story 2, The Incredibles, and Monster's INC.

No. Neither Pixar nor Dreamworks has anything to do with Ice Age.
The film was the first feature length movie from a small animation studio called Blue Sky Studios.


no. Pixar was owned by Disney for a while though.

No. In 1991 Pixar entered into an exclusive three picture distribution deal with Disney, the first of which was Toy Story. Disney did not actually acquire Pixar until 2006. This has more to do with distribution and marketing than anything else, obviously. Much more is changing at Disney than at Pixar as a result of the acquisition.

John Lasseter, VP of Pixar and director of many of the Pixar films, is now Chief Creative Officer of both Disney and Pixar. Ed Catmull, Pixar's president, is now Disney's president as well.


I have always enjoyed Pixar, before they worked with Disney and after. There was some hard feelings between the two, hence the jabs in Shrek.

What?

Pixar has nothing to do with Shrek. Different company. Dreamworks is responsible for Shrek.

There were however, hard feelings between Eisner and Katzenberg (The K in Dreamworks "SKG"). Before co-founding Dreamworks with Spielberg and Geffen, Katzenberg ran Disney's animation deptartment for a long time. Eventually he was fired by Eisner after asking for the newly vacated position of Disney President.

There's a reason Shrek bears a striking resemblance to Michael Eisner.

http://www.withoutannette.net/eisner.jpghttp://www.crealy.co.uk/content/S633035888163197500/Shrek%2002.jpg

Also, there's no "before or after Disney" as far as Pixar is concerned, unless you mean their very early commercials and short films. Before 2006, everything Pixar had done in the feature film market had been with Disney as distributor.

[Capt Quirk]

Sorry, my bad. I mixed them up. There was a deal that fell through, leaving bad feelings though. I think. It's so hard to keep all the behind the scenes stuff straight anymore.

Anyways, back on topic... Yay Pixar!

[Karl151k]

The opening montage/intro credit sequence in Cars is my fav montage in just about any movie in the last 10 years. A great marriage of music, cinematography and editing. It's very dynamic.

The Incredibles has such a great style to it. It's one of those movies that feels like it could have been done in Live Action but, then it wouldn't have been as fun to watch. Brad Bird has a terrific knack for storytelling. (Check out The Iron Giant for another example, as well as all the Simpsons episodes he did.)

[Rick Meyer]

The Incredibles is one of my favorite films period.

here here.

[Gord.T]

Another movie I forgot, by Dreamworks and also one of my favs is The Polar Express. I thought the animation was outstanding.

And just for the record I did like Ice Age (from Blue Sky) 1 & 2 but #1 was better. I did think that 2's story lacked though and thinking it was Pixars I thought it was worthy of discussion. Well call me Blunderman because as we all know now it was by Blue Sky Studios.

So a good effort by them (love Scrat). And while Dreamworks is strong, Pixar still remains king.

In fact I have not seen The Incredibles yet. (whaaa you say?)
But I went out and got it today so that's what I'm doing tonight.

[Capt Quirk]

While I enjoyed most of Polar Express, the character animation was just off.

[Cheesesailor77]

While I enjoyed most of Polar Express, the character animation was just off.

agreed. Mocap is great for making Gollum come alive into a live action movie, but in an animated film you lose some of that magic that comes from an animator's touch

[Billy Pilgrim]

I was lucky enough to attend the Pixar panel at comic-con this summer, and see lots of artwork and footage from their upcoming film, Wall-E. They showed a really long, complete sequence, and it was quite interesting. I'm actually excited to see the film. I think it'll be a bit different than their other films. The scene had a kind of atmospheric, slow pace to it. They did a demonstration of the sound (with Ben Burtt) and I guess the characters don't communicate with traditional dialogue, but with synthesized sound effects. And the plot is very interesting too.

[mikkowilson]

So is it illegal to pirate a movie that doesn't even exist? hmmmm Or maybe the video pirates can sue Pixar for piracy when Toy Story 3 finally is made. "Hey, you stole the idea from our Lao movie." hahaha!

That's a REALLY good point!

Obviously the studio can still get them for using the characters, etc.. but still..


- Mikko

[dmc]

Story is what sets Pixar ahead of the pack. These guys are comitted story tellers. Watch any of the special features on any of their films. They go through an extensive script writing process. The hammer out every detail before the film going into production and they're not afraid to change something if it doesn't work. They're the only studio that I'm aware of that does this. Story trumps all at Pixar.


Our company has had a fairly long history (7 years as Disney and another 5 as InLight Entertainment) working on both Disney and Pixar properties. Krestofre's statement is absolutely TRUE. Pixar is incredibly dedicated to both story and character development. One of the very few entertainment companies that can actually claim hold over the 4 quadrant demographic.




I don't like everything Pixar does, but I respect everything Pixar does.

I agree.



dmc

[Capt Quirk]

agreed. Mocap is great for making Gollum come alive into a live action movie, but in an animated film you lose some of that magic that comes from an animator's touch
They're using the same technique for Beowulf, and I gotta say I don't like it. It's not good film, and it's not good animation. What it is, is annoying.

[Gord.T]

I just got finished watching The Incredibles. Before I comment on that I want to clear up yet another blunder from last night as quickly as possible.


...//Yep I love the Incredibles. Great story....
I was a little you know what and thinking about something else. Forgive me.

So I wish I had of watched this in 2004 when it came out. The animations look a little dated now but the story, wow. 3/4 ways through I was surprised they were still delivering. If there was any doubt who's king of the heap, this puts it to rest. An academy award winner to boot. An instant classic in my books.
If you have not seen it, at least for great story telling is great. Even a little Bond-ish at times.

[Batutta]

They're using the same technique for Beowulf, and I gotta say I don't like it. It's not good film, and it's not good animation. What it is, is annoying.

I'm not sure this technique is really intended to be animation. I think the motivation behind it is to capture a performance once and then be able to grab whatever angle you want after the fact as the scene is stored in a 3d environment. The problem right now is that the CG and mo cap isn't good enough yet to be completely photo-realistic, so a psuedo-animated look is the result. I'm not saying I like it, as I think the characters in Polar Express and Beowulf look stiff and creepy-eyed, but I think being able to move the camera and re-direct a scene after it's shot is what Zemeckis is really after with this technology.

[traviscool]

I think mocap works for characters like Gollum but really I feel it dies when put into a fully animated film. What really bugs me is Robert Zemeckis, in my opinion he's one of the greatest directors of all time at least creatively he has an amazing pool of diverse work, but now he seems hung up on these mocap films I think it's a waste of his talent.

[Capt Quirk]

What else has he done with the motion capture?

[traviscool]

Polar Express, Beowoulf, and I'm not sure about A Christmas Carol (2009) I know it will be animated most likely will be mocap as well.

The Polar Express broke ground but these other films, personally I would much rather see Beowulf as a live action flick directed by him. I'm not saying it won't be good but I wish he would get back to some live action flicks.

[Anhar Miah]

The problem with today’s mocap is that the resolution is too limited for facial expressions, today’s mocap is great to capture body movements.

However newer technologies such as MMC (markerless motion capture) and machine understanding facial capture are capturing facial expressions that are superior to anything you have seen before.

That said, I think CG has split into two comfortable niches,

(1) 3d "cartoony" stuff
(2) 3d SFX stuff

The 3rd "holy" grail photoreal humans has been tried but we still have a long way to go, and even if its possible would we really want it?

I see 3d for films as an extension of Stop motion clay animation, they both have a lot of Similarities.

[Greggl]

Hehe.. this has been a funny thread. We always used to laugh at disney that
even our own families couldn't keep which studios did which films straight :)

As for mocap, folks have dredged up a concept from the 70's of the 'uncanny
valley'.... its the concept from robotics where as something artifical becomes
more anthropormorphic, like with mocap, we start testing the subtle cues
to a higher degree. The little telltales seem to affect our ability to catalog
and emotionally respond to the artifical entity. Ie.. the closer we get
to 'photoreal', mostly from movement, the harder we scrutinize the character
for cues that they are 'crazy' or threatening or artificial.

Its less about the tech right now, as it is about the science of emotional
perception and response.

[Cheesesailor77]

very true, yet it's still a problem