So confused about this special effects stuff... feel like giving up :(

[Steve33825]

Maybe you guys could provide some insight into this...

I'm trying to get all the equipment I need together to shoot my own movie independently since I cant find anyone with their foot in the door to help me. I live in NYC, my girlfriend and I make about $30k each a year, I myself have about $6000 in savings at the moment.

I just bought my camera + accessories all for $1500.

What I'm trying to get next is the computer workstation (G5 Mac) and NLE software.

There's only 3 shots in my subway horror movie that requires special effects...

1) A guy gets crushed beneath an indiana-jones style collapsing underpass.

2) A train breaks through the wall and slams into a parked train and drags it as it rips across the platform, killing the guy standing on it.

3) An underwater sequence where under construction tracks/tunnel gets flooded with sewage water (but not the platform though, just the space with the tracks and tunnel, it looks like a canal).

Now I found a way I can get Final Cut Studio 1 and the G5 Mac all for about under $2000. I know it has all the "basic" post production needs in terms of "editing" and "cutting" and "title effects", etc. But I'm a bit worried about what kinda "special effects" are available on Final Cut Pro... could you create Star Wars like movie effects? Could I create an imaginary T-Rex, anything?

Could I do any of the stuff mentioned above? Someone else told me on here that I need ADDITIONAL software that includes 3D or what not and also I need to create little minitures or use green screen. How am I gonna do that? I don't know how to create minitures, it'll probably cost a lot of money to find someone who does though. I don't know where to find that type of green screen either but I'm sure that costs about an arm or leg too though. All I know how to do are act, write, and direct.

Seriously I would have to be a doctor or lawyer or an engineer to afford all of this stuff. I feel blessed enough that I'm even able to get away with the computer, the final cut studio, and the camera for under $4000.

I also don't have any pictures of where these shots take place either, I would have to go location scouting at the abandoned subway station around here. I don't have anything.

Oh shit, I also just realized if I'm to go underwater in shot #3, I would need some kind of special underwater camera too? more money. Actually, I don't need to be underwater at all, I could just film above the water. But that still doesnt solve the problem of how I'm suppose to get the water in there.

$1500 for the camera + accessories
$2000 for the computer + NLE software
then what?
$1000 for some special effects program
$(insert large amount here) for a green screen
$(insert large amount here) to pay guy who can create minitures

That's going overboard, I'd like to find a way I can keep it under $4000.

What am I supposed to do? Perhaps there's a way I can get around these shots or replace it with something cheaper? Should I rewrite these parts of the script?

Sorry if I sound like an a**hole here, I'm just really frustrated. I'm glad that all these things don't cost "millions" of dollars and therefore are available to the general public and not just the hollywood executives. But a lot of this stuff is STILL expensive, you may not to be a hollywood exec to buy it but you certainly have to be making more than $40k a year or something, I mean damn...

[mikkowilson]

Yeah, some of that stuff can get prety expensive to do well.

For a green screen, anything will work well, as long as it's green. Green Paper, cloth, paint, even light, are all used without trouble to do keying effects.

The challenge isn't so much getting a creeen screen (you can get a bright/deep green unfitted bed-sheet for a couple of bucks), but using it. The green screen is just a tool that allows you to seperate layers of video.

Basically you have 3 choices for all the shots you describe:
1) Shoot the "practically" .. in real life. You'll probabaly want to do this anyway for yoru actors - film them on a green screen reacting to the environments you will be placing them in.
2) Make minatures (models) that you shoot instead. It's cheaper than bringing down a real bridge, but it will take lots of time to get all the details put in. And with minatures, details are the key. Supplies from art and building and anything stores are your friends here.
3) Create the sets, etc with 3D modeling software in a computer. This is often where particle effects, like smoke, water, dust, flying rubble, etc.. are created these days. This allows you the most control, but takes LOTs of practice. And most 3D software isn't cheap either, theough there is some creat free stuff out there too like Blender.

Normally a combination of all these methods is used to create an effect.

Have a model bridge collapse onto a person shot in front of a green screen and then add dust & rubble from a 3D model and you are gettign there.


They key to effects is to get creative. You can do all this cheaply if you have the creativity and the basic skills, and the willingness to learn the new skills necesarry.
Break down the final shots .. what do you need to create to build that shot.
Need a subsway station with flooded rails? well, you need a subway station - that you can shoot in real life - and you need water well that too you can shoot in real life - maybe take apeice of sheetrock and lay it in the water to fake the "back wall" of the track area - and shoot that and they cut it out and layer it in.
Of course if your camera moves during the shots, then it becomes a little more difficult as you have to match the moves of all the cameras of all the elements so that when you layer them, they move together.

Don't get frustrated though. Yeah it takes time (=money) to do these thigns well, but if you break them down into their parts and tackle them one component at a time, you'll be amazed at some of the solutions and effects you can come up with.

- Mikko

[matt8694]

Steve - special effects can be really tricky to pull off convincingly. You may be better, writing something that is more easily shoot-able, but still gives you the feeling of danger that you may be going for. Good luck - rock on.

[Abinc]

Steve, I just thought I'd say that you are not alone on your frustration about how everything is so damn expensive. After buying my DVX for $2.5k (not including the shipping, taxes, etc), I now need to purchase software for editing. And I'm starting to think that my laptop might not be strong enough to handle much for editing. So now I'm considering buying a Mac computer or else maxing out the specs on my current laptop. And even if I did eventually buy a mac, I still need FC Studio 2 which retails $1300. And when all you have is a job that pays what you'd make at In-and-Out Burger, life sucks.

And there are numerous other things I could mention that are costing me way more than they should, but I'll just stop now.

So I just thought I'd pop in and vent out with you; just letting you know you're not the only one frustrated. But at the same time I also want to mention that this is what I love doing! It's just an expensive hobby! Haha!

[Mattykins]

Okay, as a post visual effects person myself. I got pissed off about trying to do a shot like that, but just having a busy street be vacant...so I got into the world of visual effects....

This all can be done. On your budget? Not really. But there are creative work arounds, which may or may not work...dunno. It's 2:00 in the morning here, and this is what I came up with fast. The cool thing is, if you film a small model train and put it close to the camera. Back your actor away and mess around with it a little, you can make it look full size...all IN CAMERA!

Umm, your demolition sequence, will be hard. You would need to rig a miniature to explode and collapse. And you could add the rest of the fire, smoke, whatever in post. Using after effects. Or even putting a smoke layer, shot on a black background (like you can get from detonation films for FREE) and then select screen as the filter method. And tada, smoke added. You can do that in your NLE. Him getting crushed. You really don't even need a greenscreen, just adobe after effects, and a lot of time. You can roto him out and place him in another scene. And layer that behind the collapse (also needs to be roto'd) and then have the rock fall on him, covering him. Add blood effects. And there you go. It will take you a long time. Frame by frame, but it can be done.

2) A train breaks through the wall and slams into a parked train and drags it as it rips across the platform, killing the guy standing on it.

You can try the miniature approach, like I said above. Placing it close to the camera to make it look full size. Have it impact your other model train. And see what happens? Shoot your actor on a blank background (roto) or green screen him. Again, layer the effects on there. You can play with particles if you want to. I am not familiar with the normal generators in AE though. To make sparks and such. And then same method as above for the kill with the guy.


3) An underwater sequence where under construction tracks/tunnel gets flooded with sewage water (but not the platform though, just the space with the tracks and tunnel, it looks like a canal).

This one will cost you. And it will cost you a lot. One way is to model the platform in 3D space, using Maya or something. Or messing around with adding different planes to live action footage, after a motion track. Not a simple two point one, but a full on motion track. And then bringing it into RF4. Real Flow 4 by NextLimit. I am strongly considering buying this soon actually for integration with Maya. It is really a remarkable program. Since making water, or liquids is a nearly impossible task to take on, its the hardest thing to replicate. That shot will be the hardest, and will require you to farm it out to a effects team. Which will cost a ton of money. Rendering time ranges from 1 hour to 30 hours on some effects, even with kickass computers. That is render time alone not counting the design work. Or do it on a mockup. Which will also cost some.

Check out their show reel here: http://www.nextlimit.com/realflow/index.htm

Those are my ideas anyways. Best of luck to you!

[David Jimerson]

Steve, I just thought I'd say that you are not alone on your frustration about how everything is so damn expensive. After buying my DVX for $2.5k (not including the shipping, taxes, etc), I now need to purchase software for editing. And I'm starting to think that my laptop might not be strong enough to handle much for editing. So now I'm considering buying a Mac computer or else maxing out the specs on my current laptop. And even if I did eventually buy a mac, I still need FC Studio 2 which retails $1300. And when all you have is a job that pays what you'd make at In-and-Out Burger, life sucks.

And there are numerous other things I could mention that are costing me way more than they should, but I'll just stop now.

So I just thought I'd pop in and vent out with you; just letting you know you're not the only one frustrated. But at the same time I also want to mention that this is what I love doing! It's just an expensive hobby! Haha!

Just a little bit of perspective . . .

That which costs a few thousand dollars today would have run in the hundreds of thousands, or millions, with much, much, much more frustration and slowness, 10 years ago. The inexpensiveness and ease of what you can do today is miraculous . . . and it's pretty impressive compared to five years ago.

[Abinc]

Just a little bit of perspective . . .

That which costs a few thousand dollars today would have run in the hundreds of thousands, or millions, with much, much, much more frustration and slowness, 10 years ago. The inexpensiveness and ease of what you can do today is miraculous . . . and it's pretty impressive compared to five years ago.

So true, I completely agree!