LETUS, SG PRO or BREVIS ?

[riky]

Only in terms of quality, light and noise, what adapter is better?

Thanks

[bwest]

to know the answer someone would need to have spent $3500 in adapters?
These arent rental items... not commercially anyways

[PaPa]

my vote is with the new letus

[Joseph Stunzi]

Riky have you tried the search feature here?
There's plenty of posts about this topic. Around 3 to 5 a day, I bet.
But I'll try to help you out. Answer these questions...

What type of mount do your lenses have?
What is your fastest lens?
What type of footage will you be filming?
What's your price rage?

From there I can give you a pretty good idea in terms of quality, light, and noise my friend. You see it really depends on how much of an investment in lenses you are willing to make.

[Lenilenapi]

No one has put all 3 side by side or investigated many unanswered questions about them. A lot of people on this board are shouting that the new Letus is by far the best, but from what I see most of them or perhaps none of them have tried the other 2.

I would take uninformed recommendations with a grain of salt, though you'll find alot of them here.

It sounds like the Brevis and the Letus are more sensitive in low light than the SGPro. They all produce good images. Right now the Letus is the only one with a flip, but very soon the Brevis will have a flip that supposedly will work on the SGPro as well.

How do they compare in sharpness? Nobody's put all 3 side by side - I can tell you from experience that both the Brevis and the SGPro are sharp.

How do they compare in Bokeh? No comparisons yet

How do they compare in DOF? same answer

Grain? Same answer though the Brevis CF1L is pretty good with grain below 5.6 and the SGPro as a spinning adapter is better. The Brevis CF3L with lower DOF is worse with grain, but you don't need to use it.

Ease of use for handheld - Brevis no doubt as its lighter, but then its upside down so that's a minus.

All 3 are made by people who are constantly improving their product and listening to users.

Lenny Levy

[bwest]

No one has put all 3 side by side or investigated many unanswered questions about them. A lot of people on this board are shouting that the new Letus is by far the best, but from what I see most of them or perhaps none of them have tried the other 2.
Lenny Levy

I'll take that one step further, I find some of these same people havent purchased their first one...wtf?

[Joseph Stunzi]

bwest,
I've purchased my first one. In fact, I've arranged a test day with a local photographer to try out his "faster lenses." Here's my perspective on the companies themselves and then on the adapters.

I personally feel that Cinevate is the best in terms of customer support. They're forums are active and so is the general community using them. People like Matt and Kendal of FreshDV love the Brevis and many others on DVXUser do as well. The Brevis adapter is about quality and care. It's the only adapter that has interchangeable elements (correct me if I'm wrong?). When you receive a Brevis, you receive a beautifully packed (in it's own pelican case) and cared for product. From my understanding, Letus adapters used to come in a box of packing peanuts. Now they come with bubble wrap (the particles from the peanuts got into the adapter). This is all besides the point except for the fact of quality and care. Now yes the Brevis doesn't have a flip. However, you loose more light for that flip in the Letus. What does the Brevis have, numerous adapters and additional products. Cinevate makes rails adapters, follow focus units (coming soon I guess), matteboxes, carbon fiber rails, and other things. So Cinevate isn't just an adapter company. Have access to a fancy PL Arri lens? Well then the Brevis could mount that baby on your camera.

So the bottom line is, if you want less light loss and lens mount options, go with the Brevis. If you want only Canon and Nikon mounts, a flip, and more light loss, go with the Letus. It's all a matter of opinion. People used to love the Letus because of its price range, but the price of the Letus Extreme is greater than the current price of a Brevis (without the flip module). Now you may be thinking that the Letus Extreme looses the same amount of light in comparison to the Brevis. I find that hard to believe, but do any Letus Extreme owners have any input?

Almost forgot the SGPro. Well the SGPro really requires rails. The Brevis and Letus don't. HOWEVER, I'd highly recommend using rails with your adapter. They aren't cheap. Neither is the repair on your camera's threads. The SGPro seems to have faded somewhat in the community.

As we've been saying, no one has compared them side by side.
If you've been considering the SGPro, why not the Redrockmicro M2?

[cinebuddy]

I have a Brevis I love it. I had a Letus Flip (original) loved it hated the light loss. Awaiting the Brevis flip addition. Very enthused with what i've seen from the Letus Flip. Thrilled with the customer service of both Cinevate and the Adapterplace. Love the footage from some of the better shooters with the SGPro Rev 2 & 3. THe M2 ain't no bitch either and if you look at footage from the Vincent Pascoe's and Matt Workman it all looks phenomenal. So here's your answer, what's important to you? I hate working upside down even with my marshall flipped, and i'm not a fan of the hack. Now there is a flip that has little light loss from Letus, and an add on module with little light loss from cinevate. You say I could give a rat's ass about flip? More concerned with light loss? Then the Brevis is for you and has multiple gg elements to taste. The SGPro from what I can tell seems to be equally well suited to little light loss. The M2 not so much, you're gonna need a good light kit in dim situations from what i've read. Its a virtual buffet of awesome adapters out there so pick one, your not gonna hurt any of these guys feelings buyin one or the other, but its an aesthetic objective opinion as to which one to go with. Those of us who own them typically love the one we're with like an old country song, and espout the virtues of our love. Don't let that sway you, find someone with an adapter you can look at in person, if not you'll have to go off of what you see on the web.

[bwest]

The SGPro seems to have faded somewhat in the community.



Hahaha... too bad Wayne hadn’t shipped Disjecta a free SGpro 6 months ago!
I think it will be some time before we see a shootout between the three, and by that time there’s sure to be a few more metamorphoses to the GG’s , mounts, and flips… so it would all be irrelevant!

[Joseph Stunzi]

Ya, I have a gut feeling Redrockmicro will be coming out with something new up their sleeve. We haven't heard from them recently, ya know? They have their own flip, a remote follow focus, and lots more in store for all of us. Who knows who will take the lead in this horse race

[cinebuddy]

I don't think its faded at all. If you look at the order page, Wayne is well into December for orders. Used units go like hot cakes.

[smithy]

I agree...Wayne doesn't have to get into the horserace to say..because he is so busy trying to catch up with his orders and at the same time trying to get his first 30 Follow Focus out before the end of the month. As for the SGpro, not being talked about in the community lately..perhaps the users of SGpro's are too busy making films and don't have time to waste talking about their adapters on light loss. In addition there are not as many SGpro owners as Brevis or Letus ones because of the limited amount of SGpro's that are in the marketplace right now.

http://www.sgpro.co.uk

[cinebuddy]

. There are not as many SGpro owners as Brevis or Letus ones because of the limited amount of SGpro's that are in the marketplace right now. http://www.sgpro.co.uk


I think that's the real issue. When I spend money i'm ready to see my purchase right now. So I don't think that Pro users are making any more films than anyone else, its that people are anxious to have a $1000 purchase in their hands asap. Even Redrock's wait is 50x better than it was. But c'mon man don't take little jabs like SG user's don't worry about light loss etc. We know you love your SG but this thread has been pot shot free.

[ifownlee41nite@mac.com]

From footage I've seen the SGPro Rev 2 and up gives a very sharp edge to edge image at what I believe is at .5 light lose.

The new Letus Extreme footage that has been posted lately has shown amazing edge to edge sharpness also, while also intergrating an awesome flip feature while still only losing .5 stops of light.

Before the Letus Extreme and SGPro Rev3 hit in my opinion the Brevis was the one to go with but I was only comparing it to the M2's light lose factor.

I believe the Brevis too only loses .5 stops of light also.

I currently have a RedRock M2 HD package and am awaiting my Letus Extreme.

I can honestly say I'm putting my money where my mouth is. If the Extreme would have hit the market place 2 weeks later I would have gone and ordered the SGPro Rev3.

I chose the Letus Extreme for my new adapter because of the light lose, $1200.00 temporary price tag, delivery time, support testimonies I've read, and flip. I've actually gottin use the flipping the image in post with my M2, but I can't lie I am looking forward to not having to do that ANYMORE.

Hope this helps in some way.

[Dennis Wood]

To correct a poster back a few pages...we have just implemented a rental program...and just got the first rental back from a music video shoot. Be carefull with light loss quotes! The Brevis loses .5 to .7 stops with a 50mm f1.4 lens attached...the letus figures are measured with no lens attached. From what I've seen, no one has measured relative light loss on the Letus with a 50mm f1.4 attached.

Ultimately, the shooters out there drive development of these devices..and there's plenty of room left for development. Until I can say with 100% confidence that our adapter image looks exactly like it was shot on film, our R&D program will continure to build on itself offering modular upgrades and interchangeable imaging elements that leave few, if any, legacy users behind. We're currently increasing our staff compliment by two more folks specifically to make sure phone, email, forum or pmail requests are dealt with within the hour, or live where possible. Selling things to folks is great, but being able to have a replacement unit within 24 or less at their doorstep or studio, is more important.

It took over a year, quitting a very good day job/100% committment, and highly refined workflow to get all of our suppliers and more importantly our CNC shop (expanded capacity by a factor of 3x) capable of keeping up with demand. When the adapter market disappears, we'll still be there with high quality tools to make the indie film maker look like a professional film maker.

[smithy]

Cinebuddy

There was no intent there..but it is true that a lot of people don't like to wait as long for their adapters to be at their house in a matter of days vs months..but hopefully it would be better in the future. I believe Wayne is getting more help to cut down lead times like Redrock did.

[bwest]

When the adapter market disappears,

Waaaaaaaaaaaa Dont say that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dennis Wood]

Being able to have an adapter at your doorstep in as quick as 18 hours has taken 18 months of work! We tend to average 3 business days, but our record is 17 hours...to Florida.

[Lenilenapi]

Regarding lightloss,

This is a trickier than obvious question.

One issue is that different screens on different cameras may or may not show all the advantage that comes with opening a lens from f2.8 to f1.4. So testing at either fstop is only part of the story and your mileage with another lens or camera combination may vary.

If one adapter is faster at f1.4 it could be slower or equal with a 2.8 lens! I prefer not to shoot at f1.4 if I can help it so both issues are important to me.

Unless you put the adapters up with the same type lenses on the same type camera you don't know a whole lot, though we do know the Brevis is quite fast and that the Letus sounds like its in the same general arena, but if you think you know which is faster with or without the flip that's coming to both and without having them in your hands, you're smoking too much dope.

I can tell you from experience that the Brevis is faster than an SGPro Rev2 (maybe about a stop but i need to test more yet) and certainly than a Redrock.

Also be aware that a screen that is faster may also have more DOF (that could be good or bad) and probably a different quality Bokeh - so you need to look at these things carefully- and you may ultimately prefer the look of a slower adapter or a slower screen in the case of the Brevis.

Even side by side tests need to be extremely careful because you can make mistakes easily and discount factors you didn't notice.

- Lenny Levy

[Wayne Kinney]

We are certainly here and have been a little quiet on this board simply because we have been very involved in expanding over the last few months. We now have new premises and are finishing work on the new shoot35 website (our business name) to launch this month. From there we are offering the SGpro and SGfollow focus for sale and hire.


It took over a year, quitting a very good day job/100% committment, and highly refined workflow to get all of our suppliers and more importantly our CNC shop (expanded capacity by a factor of 3x) capable of keeping up with demand.

Yes, it's funny you mention that as this has previously been our main problem, trying to keep our CNC shop on track. Unfortunately, all machine shops seem to be like this, so we have resorted to the only answer and investing in an amazingly large batch of parts!

The result of this means that in a few months, we will have the SGpro in stock and ready to ship when you order.

[cinebuddy]

Cinebuddy

There was no intent there..but it is true that a lot of people don't like to wait as long for their adapters to be at their house in a matter of days vs months..but hopefully it would be better in the future. I believe Wayne is getting more help to cut down lead times like Redrock did.
None taken Smithy, I know you love your SG like I love my Brevis, and I like you don't really care about light loss to the point where its my only factor in buying an adapter. I find a good light kit can alleviate that problem. Truth be told i'd own them all if I could avoid being put on the couch by my wife. I just don't want to see this threads go to whose the best because my mechanically inept ass has a lot of respect for all of these guys, and I believe there is enough marketplace for them all.

[Dennis Wood]

I believe that the reason we see the volume of great work out there by adapter users is simply that they care so much about composition, that they're willing to shoulder the 35mm adapter workflow. Regardless of adapter, they all require you to stop and think very carefully about lens choice, lighting, focus racking, camera movements etc.

I continure to be very, very impressed with what a good cinematographer and DP can do to create a 100% HD piece that would be difficult to discern from film. I just started playing with Adobe Onlocation (DVRACK) that flips footage for you, and records directly to disk with all the tools a person could hope for right in front of you. Add the ability to instantly review the footage...and it gets better.

[Joseph Stunzi]

Dennis: I looked at DVRack now that you mentioned it and I totally forgot about that solution. Very cool deal there!

All: I think the selection of your adapter depends a lot on everything. It seems there is no real answer. We will forever be asking the adapter question.

[Look 1st]

Yes OnLocation is a GREAT resource but it gets old in the field QUICK...

I think there is more than enough footage for you to make a wise decision about your 35mm adapter.
Brevis ad SGPro have been around long enough for you to see that they can produce amazing results.

Letus Extreme is the new kid on the block but looks to be a serious contender, heck the Letus35FE puts out footage that looks nice, but has too many 'other' issues for me (of course the price is right though)

Im happy with my decision to go with the Letus Extreme...hopefully they will get a PL mount going, and the Hydra will deliver on its promises and life will be good :beer:

[taormina]

Can you buy Onlocation separately? Why does it get old in the field?

[Look 1st]

Can you buy Onlocation separately? Why does it get old in the field?

Cant buy it separately.

Carrying a laptop tethered to your camera via firewire has its merits, however it has a few pitfalls as well.
Using OL isnt so bad to set up shots. check lighting/scopes, etc (It is a phenomenal app), but for me, using it to monitor/capture in the field gets to be cumbersome.
DVCProHD eats up ALOT of hard drive space too, so if you dont have something to dump to, the limitations of this workflow (did I mention battery life isnt so great either running an app like OL?) begin to take their toll.

All said its a hell of a product, and I do use it. Just giving my $0.02

Now back on topic! ;)

[8DFM.com]

I think OnLocation is only bundled with Adobe Premier CS3 or Production Premium CS3. I'm working with the latter and find it has totally unleashed my creativity and distrubution options in the editing suite.

I figure it gets old in the field having to lug your laptop with you on every shot, but I think its more convienent than a field monitor anyday. Plus you don't get all of the cool features that came with the DV Rack - as Dennis mentions above.

I also spent hours and hours researching the top 4 adapters and I chose the Letus Extreme to due the 1. Upright picture, 2. the ability to mount Canon and Nikon lenses, and 3. the footage from Disjecta and others had me sold.

Now I'm getting my other options together like Follow Focus, rail system, and Matte Box.

How does this sound: IndiFOCUSpro, IndiRAILS 30", the Letus Extreme, and a DVX-100b? Now I'm just trying to get the right Matte Box option that will fit the 35mm lenses (without having to mod anything)...

Any suggestions on a Matte Box?

Thanks!

[Joseph Stunzi]

Have you looked at the Redrockmicro and the Cinevate matteboxes?

[MalcolmOng]

The cinevate mattebox looks totally badass

[8DFM.com]

Thanks Joseph - yes, it looks like the Red Rock matte box is "coming soon" and the Cinevate - though it looks awesome - is out of my price range.

I've seen a lot of other options for a lot less and I'm wondering it this is an area that I can get by with a cheaper solution - since essentially its only job is to keep unwanted light off of/out of the lense.

I'm considering Matte Box options here:

http://www.imagewest.tv/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=27

or

http://www.imagewest.tv/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=55

My problem is I don't know if a "universal" matte box would fit the end of the 35mm lense and not disturb the follow-focus actions....?

I know someone has posted their "hack" to this problem so I may just have to go that route and save a few hundred $$$.

ps--sorry to turn this into a "matte box" discussion but I think all of these questions are relevant when comparing "light loss" etc. of all of the 35mm Adapter products :)

[taormina]

That was me and to my knowledge, no matte box fits those little lenses right off the bat. Correct if wrong.

[disjecta]

I believe that the reason we see the volume of great work out there by adapter users is simply that they care so much about composition, that they're willing to shoulder the 35mm adapter workflow. Regardless of adapter, they all require you to stop and think very carefully about lens choice, lighting, focus racking, camera movements etc.

I continure to be very, very impressed with what a good cinematographer and DP can do to create a 100% HD piece that would be difficult to discern from film.

Well said Dennis. This cannot be emphasized enough.

I get a little nervous when I post test shots of the Extreme and people are really impressed and run out to buy it immediately. I hope they realize that there is a lot of thought and knowledge of lighting and composition going into these shots. It's not something that a person new to video can reproduce easily without a little experience.

The idea behind well shot footage is that the viewer is almost oblivious to how the scene is lit, whether it be artificial or natural lighting, it simply feels right. Try to shoot a "natural" scene without compensating with creative lighting and you will see just how tough it is for any video camera to accurately render the scene.

The level of quality that we are working with now, as consumers, prosumers and professionals, is beyond astounding. We can't afford to become complacent about it.

Here's the problem...in the right hands, footage can look wonderful and that has to be the standard we all aspire to. I get closer to that standard but am always learning. If you get an HDV or HD camera and one of these great quality adapters, please, please take the time to learn how to use them properly. Please also understand that the "filmlook" has everything to do with lighting, compositon, camera movement, subject, atmosphere, etc... not just a good camera and a good adapter. They are simply tools...the real magic happens when you know how to mimic the real world by understanding the limitations of those tools and finding creative solutions.

I haven't said anything that hasn't been said before except that you will see a lot of mediocre stuff done with these adapters but it should not discourage you. It should encourage you and inspire you to do better.

:)

[8DFM.com]

Thanks Adam :)

The more I keep reading this page the more I think that this matte box allows you to mount to the rails and be totally independent of the lenses.

I don't know if it will work with 35mm lenses right off the bat but I'll make the call 1st thing tomorrow.

http://www.imagewest.tv/index.asp?Pa...PROD&ProdID=55

-KC

[TimurCivan]

I totally agree Steven.

Though i believe art direction is about 50% of cinematography. i could have the best adapter/camera in the world. without a nice location, and exploting its merits im just not going to get good shots.

Look at your footage from Yellowstone. Thousands of tourits have taken pictures of the same thing. i bet none of them get shots as good as yours, because they dont take the time for the sun to be right, nor do they bother with composition, or framing movements....

People freak out about the LEtus Extreme, SG, Brevis, but seriously, any adapter will look amazing in the right hands. i just wish people would understand that its not the adapter..... its your skill shooting thats so impressive.

[DavidChia]

My problem is I don't know if a "universal" matte box would fit the end of the 35mm lense and not disturb the follow-focus actions....?

I know someone has posted their "hack" to this problem so I may just have to go that route and save a few hundred $$$.




Check out Geardear, Thier mattebox is upgradable and will fit a 35mm lens and also the camera itself. The options are vast with this mattebox. You can mount it on rails , you can clip it on the camera , or 35mm lens ( all you need is an adapter ring). You can have 1, 2, 3 filter stages, You buy with want your budget can allow you now , and upgrade as you go along, save you a lot of $.

It also is the only matte box that is currently has a hole build for the XHA1 or XHG1 that does block the auto sensor.

[Lenilenapi]

Timur,

100% right about art direction. Some famous Hollywood DP described the pivitol role of the Art Director by saying: "If you want a pretty picture of a girl ... first you need a pretty girl". Maybe that's a tad sexist these days, but it gets the point across succinctly.

How many Academy award nominations for cinematography came for a period piece who's real work was done by an Art Director who gave the DP something so beautiful that all he needed was a big source and it was gorgeous?
Low budget films often save mony by scrimping on the 2 most important people on the show - the AD and the Art Director.

[Joseph Stunzi]

8DFM, do you have a rails system? Those matteboxes look like they require rails (most do unless they use the word, snapon). If you're looking for a mattebox in that price range, have you considered a true indie solution. Perhaps making your own? Cardboard and tinfoil and duct tape work wonders.

[arno]

Thanks Joseph - yes, it looks like the Red Rock matte box is "coming soon" and the Cinevate - though it looks awesome - is out of my price range.

I've seen a lot of other options for a lot less and I'm wondering it this is an area that I can get by with a cheaper solution - since essentially its only job is to keep unwanted light off of/out of the lense.

I'm considering Matte Box options here:

http://www.imagewest.tv/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=27

or

http://www.imagewest.tv/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=55

My problem is I don't know if a "universal" matte box would fit the end of the 35mm lense and not disturb the follow-focus actions....?

I know someone has posted their "hack" to this problem so I may just have to go that route and save a few hundred $$$.

ps--sorry to turn this into a "matte box" discussion but I think all of these questions are relevant when comparing "light loss" etc. of all of the 35mm Adapter products :)

The imagewest mattebox MX-5000 Pro Matte Box is a VOCAS mattebox (or a copy)

[taormina]

If you have a matte box it MUST be on rails or swing out. You will be changing lenses frequently during a shoot.

Mine clamps onto the rails and slides forward to change lenses.

[8DFM.com]

Joseph - yes - I'm going to use the IndiRAILS system with 30" rails. As much as I'd like to make stuff out of foil and cardboard I think that showing up to a paid shoot with a "McGyver" rig would look a tad unprofessional, or "thrifty" at best ;)

Adam - What kind of Matte Box are you working with? Vocas? Thanks!

[taormina]

cavision. It's not super high end, but it is good.

[Joseph Stunzi]

I'm thinking what would be cool is a post your rig site where you can tag all of your equipment. Ya know, here's my setup and oh i'm using this follow focus... blah blah blah

[8DFM.com]

I agree - I will post a full review with pics once I get everything set up. Then I'll go out and shoot some footage, like Disjecta, for everyone to evaluate.

All the help I've gotten here is tremendous and I'm looking forward to sharing my experiences soon ;)

Thanks to Adam as well for already posting pics of his set up.

-KC

[taormina]

Glad to help!

[Joseph Stunzi]

Adam where are these pictures I hear of?

[taormina]

I don't remember - one of the 10,000 threads on the extreme. I posted pics within the last two weeks, though.