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View Full Version : The Next Generation DVX


William_Robinette
09-24-2007, 10:47 PM
Ok, so I was reading the HVX200a thread and thought that we haven't had one of these for the DVX in a while so why not? The DVX is old, and although a workhorse, isn't too smart a buy right now with the current crop of HD camcorders, and it isn't getting any better. I don't know if Panasonic has anything up their sleeve or not, but lets see if we can't compile a list of wants for a new version of the DVX.

I think there are a few things we should all remember however.

1) The HVX sits at $5,200 w/o cards from a reputable dealer. Panasonic is going to protect this.

2) The DVX sat at around $3,500 with rebate for a long time. the A1 is around there now I believe. This is the mark we are going for, and where the (large) gap in their lineup seems to be right now.

So with that in mind, some ideas I don't think are too outlandish would be as follows:


3x 1280x720 progressive CCD imagers
Same wide 4.5mm Leica Lens, but give us 58-63mm on the long end (13x-14x zoom)
Nice 3.5" LCD at 480x360 at least (640x480 better) putting info in the letter boxed areas ala HVX
HDMI 4:2:2 Uncompressed Output
AVC-HD at 18mbps to SD memory cards (two card slots)
Same versatile 2 channel audio system
24p, 30p, 60p (NTSC) 25p, 50p (Pal)
Image display flip


I don't know if it's possible with the same sort of Leica lens system they run on the DVX/HVX, but a torqued iris ring would be killer. I want the same general build as the DVX.

From the HVX protection standpoint, I think it's pretty good. HVX gets you P2, DVCPRO-HD, VFR 2-60p, 1080p among other things.

We don't have 1080p on this, but I would take a native 1280x720p chipset for the increased pixel size. No CMOS because rolling shutter doesn't seem to be taken care of yet by any camera manufacturer. The SD AVC-HD system is already in one camera Panasonic's broadcast division makes, so that is an easy transplant, and the cards are inexpensive and easy to get. Panasonic even makes a P2 Store-esq unit for SD cards. AVC-HD also supports uncompressed PCM audio which is awesome, and according to Barry Green, at 8mbps matches HDV already, so 18 mbps should look pretty good.

I think this would be a far forward thinking camera. There isn't really any backwards compatibility here, regarding standard DV and down conversion to it. Maybe you implement this through available down conversion via firewire? Who knows. I hope Panasonic would have the guts to take a camera this far. I am fine with the image tweaks the DVX offers, but more would always be better.

What do you think? Feasible for +/- $3,200? Protects the HVX but good alternative to the A1, V1U, HD110? I'd pick one up in a heartbeat.
DerrickTempleton
09-24-2007, 11:05 PM
I think the balancing point between price and hvx protection is razor thin. $3200 seems too low for this stuff, I'd think more like $4500. Don't know if it can squeeze between the dvx and hvx right now, maybe in another year when the dvx becomes a little more obsolete...
William_Robinette
09-25-2007, 09:31 AM
Maybe, but everything sans the CCD system (HD110) and LCD (XDcam-EX) is implemented in cameras fitting the price bracket already. Heck, the HV20 has uncompressed HDMI output.
cardmaverick
09-30-2007, 08:07 PM
You could always buy a used DVX and then install Andromeda into it, which I would argue puts it into a whole new class of cameras.
ifownlee41nite@mac.com
09-30-2007, 08:32 PM
You could always buy a used DVX and then install Andromeda into it, which I would argue puts it into a whole new class of cameras.

I believe that more people should keep Andromeda in mind.
Those who own dvx cams anyway. I know I am.
bilgami
10-05-2007, 01:18 PM
I believe that more people should keep Andromeda in mind.
Those who own dvx cams anyway. I know I am.

Ive heard good things about the Andromeda but is it true that it dont record audio?
also, how portable are you with Andromeda will you be confined to a laptop? i shoot weddings and not sure if it makes sense if im not allowed to roam.:dankk2:
William_Robinette
10-05-2007, 03:28 PM
I would not shoot a weeding with Andromeda
dory_breaux
10-09-2007, 11:05 AM
I'd say just give use a higher resolution and variable frame rates.
cardmaverick
10-09-2007, 10:10 PM
Andromeda = Power User
xDisciplex
10-09-2007, 10:39 PM
As far as the Andromeda goes - I think it is a great idea....but..... I really can't justify for at least myself to take the plunge for $2500 extra on top of my DVX which I bought for $3500 a few years back. Adding it up puts me $800 over of what a new HVX would cost total investment.

I do alot of shoots throughout the year (mainly music videos and film shorts) and like the increased latitude you get with the Andromeda, but as far as the HVX goes - that 60p is hard to beat for great slow motion shots.

If the Andromeda mod was dropped significantly where it isn't so much more than what a new HVX would cost (including your camera cost), I'd put in an order for it - but can't justify the $2500 addition when HVX is right at that price point w/ my camera cost included. Plus with the addition of a mac mini and touch screen for on-site uploading of material you're getting with Andromeda - that "not so portable" should be accounted for, especially with the boom in HD. The HVX is portable right off the bat, the DVX with Andromeda needs to be modded with another computer to be made portable.

Don't get me wrong - I think Andromeda is amazing and REALLY would love to put it in my DVX100A, but just stressing some issues that have been running through my head comparing forking $2500 toward it and selling my DVX100A and just getting an HVX200 instead.

Chris - what are your thoughts on the two since you have the DVX Andromeda mod, and I'm sure you're familiar with how the HVX performs as well.

What is the major advantage of spending $2500 on a DVX upgrade compared to a stock HVX - is it worth $2500 to plunge into in your opinion or is a stock HVX better?
William_Robinette
10-09-2007, 10:48 PM
I would totally go for Andromeda next if portability wasn't an issue. I need something I can put on mu shoulder and run with. I do some filming in remote locations sometimes and lugging a Pelican case full of mac mini parts and a car battery doesn't work.
cardmaverick
10-09-2007, 11:02 PM
I would totally go for Andromeda next if portability wasn't an issue. I need something I can put on mu shoulder and run with. I do some filming in remote locations sometimes and lugging a Pelican case full of mac mini parts and a car battery doesn't work.

I hear you man, but some users can run like the wind, they just had more money to put into their system than me. Check out the 3DVX people, very ENG compact, and...

3D!
William_Robinette
10-09-2007, 11:06 PM
Chris,

I have seen pictures of your setup that you carry around. Could/can you mount your touchscreen on a Noga arm on the DVX and operate with say 25 feet or so of movement, provided one has the cables?
DannyDarko
10-10-2007, 12:07 AM
I would not shoot a weeding with Andromeda

Hey, at least weeds don't move too much, so being tethered to a computer isnt such a bad thing. ;)
William_Robinette
10-10-2007, 12:11 AM
I just think it would be boring subject matter... :thumbsup:
ryan brown
10-10-2007, 07:06 PM
Not to the smokers.:Drogar-Smoke(DBG):
cardmaverick
10-10-2007, 07:59 PM
Chris,

I have seen pictures of your setup that you carry around. Could/can you mount your touchscreen on a Noga arm on the DVX and operate with say 25 feet or so of movement, provided one has the cables?

Good question. Yes you could if you wanted. I'm aiming for a temp mod to my setup called:

Active USB!

Thats gonna give me a good 45 feet of mobility away from the video village. Directors will dig that setup. I'll just have a trusty AC run the Sculptor software, thats what they are for you know :)

If you have enough VGA cable, I don't see why you couldn't also take the monitor with you, but you'll need a second active USB cable for the monitor too, but I have some reservations about how much stress two active USB runs will put on the USB bus, that could cause some issues. Andromeda is a bus hog.
ifownlee41nite@mac.com
10-10-2007, 08:14 PM
Chris,

I have seen pictures of your setup that you carry around. Could/can you mount your touchscreen on a Noga arm on the DVX and operate with say 25 feet or so of movement, provided one has the cables?

http://www.reel-stream.com/gallery_individual.php?gallery_type=3&image_id=188

Check this setup out. I have seen bigger rigs on the go. I could definitely make a portable rig for this setup. It might take a couple of weeks to get all the parts, but it looks really together.
ifownlee41nite@mac.com
10-10-2007, 08:19 PM
But on second thought Chris is the one with an Andromeda setup, so if he says the bus are an issue thats stops me in my tracks.
cardmaverick
10-10-2007, 08:30 PM
But on second thought Chris is the one with an Andromeda setup, so if he says the bus are an issue thats stops me in my tracks.

I'm only theorizing about that. I can use my setup without issues. What I wonder about has to do with two very long active USB runs, I believe those pull power out of the bus, so it *might* cause a problem, can't say for sure till its tested.