Any 35mm adapter for the hpx500 yet ?

[LuckyStudio 13]

m2 ? sgpro ? breavis ?? letus ?? anything besides the $9k ps teknik :huh: ?????

[dolby]

m2 ? sgpro ? breavis ?? letus ?? anything besides the $9k ps teknik :huh: ?????

I am waiting on one too. BTW, the P&S is ~$27k

I hear there are some options in the works though, but can't remember who was working on them.

[dregenthal]

I seriously doubt we'll see any effort in this area. Think about it . . . after the R&D, new parts, (supplier headaches), how many do you think they would actually sell? With the correct setup you should be able to achieve near what you get on the HVX from this camera without an adapter.

[GaryinCalifornia]

Was just thinking of this... I wonder if he could adapt it to use on the HPX...

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=110531

I know one of the Letus' you can mount it straight to the body of the XLH1 or the JVC....

[BlueWorld]

With the correct setup you should be able to achieve near what you get on the HVX from this camera without an adapter.

Even with a 1.6 Cineprime wide open, the DOF is about the same as F8 on 35mm, so a DOF adapter will still be needed.

The Brevis will work now on this camera, and I know Dennis has said that a relay lens for 2/3" cameras is in the works.

[LuckyStudio 13]

I mean, we can use any 35mm adapter with the cam but we need a relay lens that can help with the 2/3" focusing. Dennis Wixom apparently promises a new relay lens ASAP. I hope we will see it soon !

[joe 1008]

I don´t want to hijack this thread but I think it would be interesting for the understanding of the issue to know why there should be any limitation of 1.6 for the aperture of a Cineprime. Is it too difficult to build a Cineprime with an aperture of 1.4 for example? Where are the limits? A prime without adapter that creates sufficient DOF would be the fastest and cleanest solution for 2/3" cameras.

[Barry_Green]

In order to get the same depth of field as 35mm film from a 2/3" camera, you'd have to open up by four stops. According to the Panavision calculator, you can get the equivalent field of view from a 35mm camera with a 50mm lens, as you would from a 2/3" camera with a 23mm lens. But to get the same depth of field as the 35mm camera at f/5.6, you'd have to open the 2/3" camera up to f/1.4.

I guess that means that if you wanted to match the performance of a 35mm camera shooting at f/2.8, you'd need to use a lens on your 2/3" camera that could open up to f/0.7!

[smelni]

I have gotten the m2 to work with the HPX500 using the fuji lens as a relay but I havent had a chance to test the resolution yet - I plan on checking this soon and I will post the results here.

[LuckyStudio 13]

$27k for the P&S ??? I rather use the RED One for that kinda money. :p

[Barry_Green]

$27k for the P&S ??? I rather use the RED One for that kinda money. :p
Exactly. And from my experience, the P&S softens the image noticeably. The Red One won't. :thumbsup:

[GaryinCalifornia]

$27k for the P&S ??? I rather use the RED One for that kinda money. :p


Exactly. And from my experience, the P&S softens the image noticeably. The Red One won't. :thumbsup:


True on both... but can you get one today if you have to shoot tomorrow...

[Barry_Green]

And you can rent it, so you don't exactly have to pay $27,000 to buy it...

[John Alton Disciple]

Uh, that's great... But the thread is about 2/3" DOF adapters for those who own such cameras...

Back on the subject, does anyone know how Dennis (or anyone else) is doing on a relay lens?

[BlueWorld]

I don´t want to hijack this thread but I think it would be interesting for the understanding of the issue to know why there should be any limitation of 1.6 for the aperture of a Cineprime. Is it too difficult to build a Cineprime with an aperture of 1.4 for example? Where are the limits? A prime without adapter that creates sufficient DOF would be the fastest and cleanest solution for 2/3" cameras.

But I'm betting that the CAC needed for that kind of aperture is either nearly impossible to design, or prohibitively expensive. Not much point if a 1.4 2/3" Cineprime is going to cost $60K.

Single CMOS will save the world.

[joe 1008]

And what´s about the Angenieux/Zeiss 35mm adapter? (Not based on a proyection plate but on a system of optical lenses) Should be prohibitively expensive but JVC presented something similar for their 1/3" HD cams for about 4000$. It looked really clean on a demo clip and is said to consume only 1/2 stop of light. (In the case of JVC the adapter is designed for 16mm lenses but the DOF was clearly shallower than with a 1/3 sensor). Maybe there are still a lot of things to come in the future...

[BlueWorld]

The Angenieux/Zeiss 35mm adapter is beautiful, but costs about the same as a PRO35. Once REDs are readily available, neither of these solutions will make any sense.

The JVC HZ-CA13U would have been great if it was 35mm rather than 16mm. Super16 is just the teensiest bit bigger than 2/3", so unless you're going to run superspeeds or master primes, there's hardly any difference between the PL adapter and just using a 2/3" Cineprime. The adapter gets you 1.3 over 1.6, but then the adapter is adding a whole lot of glass into the optical path. It doesn't seem worth it.

[martin kunert]

I have the HPX500 and Brevis35 working together. The Fujinon lens works as a relay lens - that's the good news. The bad is that the camera looks like a bazooka since to attach the Brevis to Fujinon, you need to add extender tubes.

The resulting image, btw, looks great.

[joe 1008]

Once REDs are readily available, neither of these solutions will make any sense.

Once there is a well working adapter for 2/3 cameras for under 10k$ there would be hundreds or thousands of existing cameras ready to compete with the RED.

[Matty_g]

I have the HPX500 and Brevis35 working together.

Mind posting some grabs?

[Tim Naylor]

Once there is a well working adapter for 2/3 cameras for under 10k$ there would be hundreds or thousands of existing cameras ready to compete with the RED.
Joe, no adaptor system will come close to RED. All adaptors are inherently soft. You're shooting a rear projection for chris sakes. I own an SG PRO and love it, I think it's the sharpest of the bunch, but compared to my hvx without it, it doesn't compare in terms of sharpness. And that's where RED will crush the best of the Adaptors out there. A Vipercam with a Pro 35 and Cookes still won't be anywhere in the same league for sharpness. Encoding for the web, sharpness isn't an issue, but as 40" plus TV's become the norm, I believe the adaptor will fade like a fond memory.

A prime lens to adaptor ground glass, relay lens, RGB prism, and finally chipc can't come close to a lens to chip (RED). Red eliminates the unnecessary glass and thank god the RGB prism is gone too. How long will it take for the Biggies to finally do away with that nonsense.

Tim Naylor - DP
www.timnaylor.com

[Barry_Green]

thank god the RGB prism is gone too. How long will it take for the Biggies to finally do away with that nonsense
Nonsense? Versus using the Beyer pattern single sensor? Every professional camcorder ever manufactured by the "Big 3" (JVC, Sony, Panasonic) has used three chips with a prism because it was better than a single-chip Beyer system.

The ultimate will be the Foveon, a single chip, no prism, but also no Beyer pattern either, so it's capable of true 4:4:4. Don't know when they'll be able to adapt the technology to video though.

[John Alton Disciple]

You know in 2012, holographic recording will blow away the Red... And in 2017, Truelife will eat holographic by a whopping 12 gigabits a sec...

GET OVER IT. READ THE THREAD TOPIC. THIS ISN'T A RED PROPAGANDA FORUM.

The whole point of a the right DOF adapter is to soften the image to an acceptable degree. That's what we're looking for - not a different camera system. You may as well be trolling Sony miracles here. It's the same disrespect to the the thread.

[Dennis Wood]

John, I can confirm that we are working on the B4 relay module for use with existing Brevis units. In other words, Martin's HPX500 will get a lot shorter, and he won't need to purchase another Brevis unit to do it...just the relay module :-) It was necessary to get our optical flip module engineering and testing done first. Expect an XL-H1/H2 version too.

[John Alton Disciple]

Dennis,

That's great news. Sign me up. What's the timeframe/price for the package?

[Life in a Box Films]

Hi Dennis, that is awesome news. Would the B4 relay provide a flip or would the image be upside down?

[Dennis Wood]

Well, our flip optics needed to be done first so we could offer a flipped and non-flipped B4 relay. With camera's like the JVC HD250 out there, we're hoping in a year or two, optical flip units will be obsolete.

[martin kunert]

I'll put up some HPX->Brevis35 grabs in a few days.

If you're looking for samples of how the HPX500 handles different lighting conditions, take a look at http://www.martinkunert.com The HD video takes two or more minutes to download (depending on your connection speed), but it's high rez, so should give you a indication of the camera's ability. You'll note there's a lot of shallow DOF, but that's due to the 2/3" chips. The Brevis35 only makes it better.

Best-
m k

[Dennis Wood]

Martin, grabs from your setup would be great. If you've got some fast 35mm glass up front, installing CF3L will increase the apparent shallowness of the DOF by a factor of about 2. That's a subjective evaluation of course but it's quite apparent in footage.

[joe 1008]

Today I´ve been on a set where the DP used a Varicam with Zeiss primes. Though the DOF isn´t as shallow as 35mm at let´s say f 4 it really looked GOOD. Far better than all the ENG-DOF we are used to see on TV. Those additional one or two stops a prime can provide in comparision to a zoom lens really matter. There should be cheap(er) CAC primes! With three of them (30, 55, 80mm - compared to 35mm) you could shoot in almost every situation and for many people an adapter with all the inmanent problems would become obsolete.

[BlueWorld]

Every professional camcorder ever manufactured by the "Big 3" (JVC, Sony, Panasonic) has used three chips with a prism because it was better than a single-chip Beyer system.

Emphasis on 'has' and 'was'. Single CMOS image quality is now better than anything three CCDs puts out. Just look at the image quality from any Canon DSLR or the current RED footage. Look at some footage from the $800 HV20 when by-passing the compression. Canon has very clearly committed to CMOS, and given how they always roll out new technology in consumer models, it's clear that a prosumer version of the HV20 won't be far away.

But, even if CMOS wasn't putting out better imagery, getting rid of the prism block and all that CA is going to be worth it alone. With single chip glass, a $30K WA ENG zoom is going to cost about $1,700. Canon's L primes are some of the best glass in the world and no three plane glass (including Canon's) can even come remotely close. If Canon were to put an EF mount on a pro level HV20 with a CMOS sensor, the adapter market would disappear overnight and the footage would make you cry.

(And as a by-product of the EOS mount, you'd get wireless, motorless, follow focus and iris control thrown in for free)

[joe 1008]

Sooner or later that is exactly what will come. Meanwhile.....

[LuckyStudio 13]

a year or so later.... still no b4 relay lens from non of the manufacturers ...... :/

[dolby]

I gave up waiting on a 35mm adapter and ordered a Red. Now I just have to wait for Red to get built. If a 35mm adapter that would come out for the HPX500 today, I would still buy it to have until my red ships.


dolby

[mcgeedigital]

I gave up waiting on a 35mm adapter and ordered a Red. Now I just have to wait for Red to get built. If a 35mm adapter that would come out for the HPX500 today, I would still buy it to have until my red ships.


dolby

Um, okay. :huh:

They are TOTALLY different cameras, but whatever works for you.

[dolby]

Who pissed in your corn flakes?

I know they are different cameras....but they will be used for the same purpose. I was just making a point that I am tired of waiting.




Um, okay. :huh:

They are TOTALLY different cameras, but whatever works for you.

[cheezweezl]

Who pissed in your corn flakes?

I know they are different cameras....but they will be used for the same purpose. I was just making a point that I am tired of waiting.

same purpose to a point maybe. both capture images. good luck grabbing the red, throwing it on your shoulder, and shooting something on the fly.

if all you do is film-type shoots then no problem but run and gun aint happening on the red.