Troy Director's Cut

[David Jimerson]

http://www.amazon.com/Troy-Directors-Cut-Ultimate-Collectors/dp/B000TGJ8IU/ref=sr_1_1/105-7612966-7291656?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1190123183&sr=1-1

'Coz the one thing that movie needed to be was half an hour longer.

[jpeck]

Can't be worse than the 9387593759354 different versions of Alexander.

[MojoTrancer]

Can't be worse than the 9387593759354 different versions of Alexander.

Amen.

And yet the film never improves. Hmmmmm...

[Batutta]

While I am not about to come to the defense of Troy, I at least found it watchable, and it held my interest in a cheap soap opera kind of way. Also, Brad Pitt in this movie is the closest I've come to ogling a man in a semi-gay way. What I wouldn't give to look like that for just one day.

[Matthew R. Rodwell]

While I am not about to come to the defense of Troy, I at least found it watchable, and it held my interest in a cheap soap opera kind of way. Also, Brad Pitt in this movie is the closest I've come to ogling a man in a semi-gay way. What I wouldn't give to look like that for just one day.

Sounds like someone needs a cold shower :D

[Mark Harris]

I was just saying to myself the other day: "What I would really love to see is a longer cut of TROY."

Oh wait, no, I was sticking a fork in my eye...

[MOVIE STUNTS]

When I see multiple versions of movies that were just ok or horrible at the store I think to myself man that studio really lost their asses on that movie and they are trying desperatly to regain some of the money back by putting it everywhare so that I have to look at a damn poster or movie stand of a movie jacket to remind me that they sucked.

Funny... I still have no desire to see them again. Yet I know somewhare some sucker is thinking wow this must be good, A REVISED UNCUT SPECIAL DIRECTOR APPROVED COLLECTORS ONLY EDITION OF......... (Insert bad movie title.)

Ok, time for a cold shower and nobody else is invited.

[Sad Max]

Will it come with alternate endings? Like, one where the Trojans don't fall for the horse-trick, and the Greeks lose the war?

[Mark Harris]

Will it come with alternate endings? Like, one where the Trojans don't fall for the horse-trick, and the Greeks lose the war?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs3SfNANtig

:):)

[StefanHaynes]

If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Conversely, if it's already inherently and utterly f**ked in every way imaginable, don't try to unf**k it.

But of course, this is Hollywood....

[Billy Pilgrim]

Hey guys, come on now. For all we know, Troy was butchered by the studio, and the director's vision could be much diff...BAHAHAHAHAHA! Sorry, I just couldn't keep a straight face while saying that.

[jpeck]

I look forward to seeing a Ender's Game Director's Cut thread in 2011.

[tmnt]

I couldn't take Troy seriosly because of Eric Bana's BAD accent. His Australian accent comes out very thick in a few lines.

[David Jimerson]

I look forward to seeing a Ender's Game Director's Cut thread in 2011.

Don't hold your breath. :thumbsup:

[karapetkov]

Troy is a pretty good example of BAD filmmaking, especially screenwriting. 100 different cuts couldn't fix a bad script.

An you definitely shouldn't make a popcorn movie based on THE ILIAD, for Christ's sake!...

...or for Zeus's sake, if you will....

Go make Spiderman 12 or 31, if you want the big cash, but don't mess with the classics.

[CallaghanFilms]

I dug Troy alot.
I'll pass on the director's cut tho...
I learned my lesson with those of Ridley Scott

[David Jimerson]

Actually, the Iliad was kind of the day's equivalent of a popcorn movie.

[Mark Harris]

Actually, the Iliad was kind of the day's equivalent of a popcorn movie.


And I am sure in 2800 years, people will still be watching TROY too...:)

Someone mentioned Eric Bana's accent. I actually thought he was the only tolerable thing in that film. I like his work a lot and he brought some actual humanity to the role.

[David Jimerson]

And I am sure in 2800 years, people will still be watching TROY too...:)

I find that highly unlikely. But elements of what we'd consider pop(corn) culture today certainly will be studied in the same way as Homer's epics.

[karapetkov]

Actually, the Iliad was kind of the day's equivalent of a popcorn movie.

The Iliad is one of the archetypal epics, name a few popcorn epics, please.

[David Jimerson]

The Iliad is one of the archetypal epics, name a few popcorn epics, please.

It's an archetypical epic because scholars later decided it was so. It certainly wasn't seen as that at the time.

I have no idea how our own culture is going to be viewed after a couple of millennia, so I don't know exactly which bits of culture will be exalted -- but I can be confident in saying that something will be, and some of it will be what we might consider "popcorn" today.

[Mark Harris]

I find that highly unlikely. But elements of what we'd consider pop(corn) culture today certainly will be studied in the same way as Homer's epics.

I know, I was being snarky.

Shakespeare too was "popcorn" in his time. He was a very successful playwright/actor/theater owner and made a lot of money. And his plays were written to make money.

[David Jimerson]

Exactly. And Mozart lived mostly on his trashy, but popular, chamber music.

[Batutta]

I know, I was being snarky.

Shakespeare too was "popcorn" in his time. He was a very successful playwright/actor/theater owner and made a lot of money. And his plays were written to make money.

Well, who Shakespeare actually was is being seriously debated by many credible people.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iL3anNkTAAllqOoLBxSPeHA6k78A

[karapetkov]

There's a popcorn level to all of those, mentioned above.

But there were also a lot of other levels or layers to their work, rising above the popcorn [hehe, that would be a nice shot - Shakespeare, rising above the popcorn :laugh:].

There were a lot of other popcorn authors in the time of Homer, Shakespeare or Mozart, but noone remembers them.

Why?

Because they stayed at the popcorn level, they didn't go beyond that, they didn't search for a deeper meaning, message, etc.

That's why Shakespeare is Shakespeare, because he went beyond popcorn... far beyond :) ... ..... he went to get a couple of Cokes too :) :) :).

:2vrolijk_08:

Sorry about that, but I think you get the idea.

...

Please, don't get me wrong.

Popcorn is OK, it is a necessary evil that every filmmaker has to cope with

[especially if oversalted :P... OK, I'm stopping... ].

I wouldn't wanna be a popcorn-only filmmaker... I dream of a deeper meaning too... and dreaming is free, right? [and sometimes - very profitable :)].

[karapetkov]

Well, who Shakespeare actually was is being seriously debated by many credible people.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iL3anNkTAAllqOoLBxSPeHA6k78A


Yeah, quite a bunch of people, according to some sources :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG).

[Sad Max]

In a few hundred years, scholars will be debating whether or not there was really one man named Joe Esterhaus, who wrote all those screenplays...

[David Jimerson]

There's a popcorn level to all of those, mentioned above.

But there were also a lot of other levels or layers to their work, rising above the popcorn [hehe, that would be a nice shot].

There were a lot of other popcorn authors in the time of Homer, Shakespeare or Mozart, but noone remembers them.

Why?

Because they stayed at the popcorn level, they didn't go beyond that, they didn't search for a deeper meaning, message etc.

That's why Shakespeare is Shakespeare, because he went beyond popcorn... way beyond... ..... he went to get a couple of Cokes too :)

:2vrolijk_08:

Sorry about that, but I think you get the idea.

...

Please, don't get me wrong.

Popcorn is OK, it is a necessary evil that every filmmaker has to cope with

[especially if oversalted :P... OK, I'm stopping... ].

I wouldn't wanna be a popcorn-only filmmaker... I dream of a deeper meaning too... and dreaming is free, right? [and sometimes - very profitable :)].

Well, still, they were considered popcorn at the time. I'm sure "learned" people of the day didn't think they'd be destined for posterity.

Too, who knows if there weren't epics which made Homer look like a limerick writer? I'd wager that he survived when others didn't precisely (or at least in significant part) because his epics were popular, and people remembered them. People remember what they like. I'm pretty sure there are a whole lot more people out there who can tell you who played third-string shortstop for the '56 Dodgers than who know the basic plot points of Fathers and Sons. That's just the way people work, the way people have always worked, and the way they always will.

The point is, in Homer's day, epics like the Iliad were popular entertainment which filled exactly the same position in their culture as blockbuster movies (among other things) do for us today. We have no way of knowing what people in the future will consider gems from own culture. If you could flash forward and find out, it's very possible that you might be appalled. Who knows? Maybe some future university will offer a major in deconstructing Steven Segal movies. I would doubt it, but there's no way to know.

[Sad Max]

What about the religious overtones of Homer's work?

Not a component (gods be praised) of any 'blockbuster,' today.

[David Jimerson]

The Passion of the Christ? The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe?

Besides, Hellenic culture of the day was much more religious in day-to-day life than ours currently is. It's a reflection of that, as popular entertainment usually is.

[jpeck]

So, in 2000 years they will be praising super hero movies? :cry:

[David Jimerson]

Not necessarily the movies, but it would not be at all surprising if Superman, Batman, and Spider-man are seen as literary or cultural archetypes in their own right and studied accordingly.

[Sad Max]

The Passion of the Christ? The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe?



I don't think that most of the audience went for the Christian aspect, of Lion. If not for the media froo-haw over it, I doubt most viewers would even have made the connection. Although it *is* there.

I think most people who went to see Passion went for snuff-value. Not to deny the religious basis of that, either, though.

Those two are anomalies.

I sure hope.

[karapetkov]

Well, still, they were considered popcorn at the time. I'm sure "learned" people of the day didn't think they'd be destined for posterity.

Too, who knows if there weren't epics which made Homer look like a limerick writer? I'd wager that he survived when others didn't precisely (or at least in significant part) because his epics were popular, and people remembered them. People remember what they like. I'm pretty sure there are a whole lot more people out there who can tell you who played third-string shortstop for the '56 Dodgers than who know the basic plot points of Fathers and Sons. That's just the way people work, the way people have always worked, and the way they always will.

The point is, in Homer's day, epics like the Iliad were popular entertainment which filled exactly the same position in their culture as blockbuster movies (among other things) do for us today. We have no way of knowing what people in the future will consider gems from own culture. If you could flash forward and find out, it's very possible that you might be appalled. Who knows? Maybe some future university will offer a major in deconstructing Steven Segal movies. I would doubt it, but there's no way to know.

Popcorn movies are: watch and forget... While the Iliad was something more: it was considered an honor to know it by heart and there was even a kind of people who made a living out of reciting passages of it "professionally" :) - I believe they were called rhapsodes.

It was a respected, almost holy scripture, much like the Bible... come to think of it, it's just like the Bible, but this is another [off]topic and a long one...

The ancient Greeks regarded it not only as fun, but also as a record of their national memory and pride, a part of their identity. It also described their religious system and general view of the world. And it was quite a view...

I understand what you mean and I agree, there is a popcorn element in the picture, but I disagree that it is just popcorn... it's much more.

So, please don't overpopcornalize something that the centuries have proved to be unpopcornalizable in the first place:Drogar-Happy(DBG):.

[Sad Max]

Unpopcornalizable has my vote for neologism of the year, now.

[Mark Harris]

Well, who Shakespeare actually was is being seriously debated by many credible people.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iL3anNkTAAllqOoLBxSPeHA6k78A

Oh boy, here we go again...

This is irrelevant to the point, though. No matter who wrote them, they made a lot of money off them, and wrote them to please masses of people.

[Mark Harris]

What about the religious overtones of Homer's work?

Not a component (gods be praised) of any 'blockbuster,' today.

HUH????????

Dude, wait till you see my essay on the right-wing-ed-ness of "KNOCKED UP." That shit is EVERYWHERE. They just hide it better now :)

[DeSica]

I know, I was being snarky.

Shakespeare too was "popcorn" in his time. He was a very successful playwright/actor/theater owner and made a lot of money. And his plays were written to make money.

I agree. I often get into arguments when I suggest the guy wasn't exactly highbrow. I don't really like his stuff too much. It's ok, but...

[David Jimerson]

Popcorn movies are: watch and forget... While the Iliad was something more: it was considered an honor to know it by heart and there was even a kind of people who made a living out of reciting passages of it "professionally" :) - I believe they were called rhapsodes.

It was a respected, almost holy scripture, much like the Bible... come to think of it, it's just like the Bible, but this is another [off]topic and a long one...

The ancient Greeks regarded it not only as fun, but also as a record of their national memory and pride, a part of their identity. It also described their religious system and general view of the world. And it was quite a view...

I understand what you mean and I agree, there is a popcorn element in the picture, but I disagree that it is just popcorn... it's much more.

So, please don't overpopcornalize something that the centuries have proved to be unpopcornalizable in the first place:Drogar-Happy(DBG):.

Look, all I'm saying is what it was considered to be . . . at the time -- not the profundity that was discovered in it (or ascribed to it) later on.

And also that something you might consider "watch and forget" today may well be as revered in 2000 years. Posterity is funny that way.

[karapetkov]

Look, all I'm saying is what it was considered to be . . . at the time -- not the profundity that was discovered in it (or ascribed to it) later on.

And also that something you might consider "watch and forget" today may well be as revered in 2000 years. Posterity is funny that way.

OK, I have nothing against watch-and-forget movies... I watch and forget them quite often :). And it's OK.

You say - it was considered popcorn then. That's correct. But it was also considered national epic and even ideology...

Would you regard Batman as a national hero of the US, for example?... Don't think so...

What I insist on, is that the Iliad is a non-popcorn material and popcornalizing it is almost a crime.

That's the source of my anger against Troy. It really wakes the Dark Side in me. AArgh :).

A movie based on the Iliad could be amazing on each level: popcorn and over. And the authors of Troy threw that possibility away and sold its potential cheaply.

It is a surprise that the scriptwriter of Troy is Daniel Benioff. He wrote the 25th Hour and it was great!

Well, anyway: different people, different tastes... maybe I just want something else from a movie about Troy, something more Kubrick-like, for example.

Which proves again that you can't make everyone happy, and maybe you don't need to...

[David Jimerson]

I do think Batman -- not necessarily any of the movies, but the character -- is very much a stylized manifestation of some our cultural mores and complexion, yes. Superman certainly is. And it's a good example, because I think there's a good chance that far-flung future generations will study Superman and Batman AS archetypes, even though no one could seriously have believed that 50 years ago when they were just drawings in "funny books."

There certainly are better ways to adapt the Iliad than Troy, however. Some of those ways would probably considered VERY popcorn, even if they're also very good.

[karapetkov]

Agreed about the function of Batman and the other -mans.

But they are fictional characters and the Trojan wars were very real. Achilles, Paris and Agamemnon must have had very real prorotypes.

I don't think it's the same case.

[David Jimerson]

While there may have been sieges of which Troy (if it has been correctly identified) was a part, there's not a whole lot to show that there was ever a "Trojan war" of the type described in the Iliad, any more than there was ever a real Romeo or Juliet -- or King Arthur, Camelot, and the Round Table. It's just a story passed down from generation to generation, perhaps based on some degree of historical fact, but with a great deal of distortion, mixing of legends, and fictional embellishment.

[karapetkov]

Partial truth is better than complete fiction I guess.

[Sad Max]

HUH????????

Dude, wait till you see my essay on the right-wing-ed-ness of "KNOCKED UP." That shi* is EVERYWHERE. They just hide it better now :)

Shoot me a copy and I'd be happy to read it.

[Billy Pilgrim]

What happened to this thread? I thought we were making fun of the Troy Director's Cut?

[karapetkov]

Troy is crap, Director's Cut is Director's Crap. I really hate it, sorry :)