PDA

View Full Version : 2 new HDV cameras with interchangeable lens



moldcad
09-08-2007, 05:18 AM
http://www.sonybiz.net/biz/view/ShowSiteSection.action?section=SB+SS+ALL+BC+News+H DV&site=biz_en_CH

So we have a "Z2" after all, and no need for 35mm adaptors!

Noel Evans
09-08-2007, 05:59 AM
Flexible Lens Options
The shoulder-mount camcorder is supplied with an interchangeable HD Carl Zeiss lens with 1/3” bayonet joint mechanism, allowing the flexibility of attaching existing 2/3” or 1/2” lenses with a standard lens adaptor. Lenses from the popular Digital SLR – a System from Sony can also be used with a special adaptor.

Well looks like Sony certainly isnt giving up on HDV yet. And looks like theyve decided to offer a pro feel 1/3 incher with 4 channel audio.

Theres also another HDV cam on there from Sony which I noticed an interesting point - ability to shoot 400 fields per second for upto 12 seconds. Now that would be pretty good slow mo. Interestingly though I couldnt see a 25p function on the description for that one - which would suggest they are aiming at the event crowd - weddings, parties anything.

moldcad
09-08-2007, 07:13 AM
Which one do you mean, specifcally?

ecking
09-08-2007, 08:55 AM
Interchangable lenses? I doubt this will come with a low price tag, this is sony we're talking about.

Luis Caffesse
09-08-2007, 09:03 AM
Lets hope that with JVC, Sony and Canon having 1/3" offerings with interchangable lenses that Panasonic steps up with the next incarnation of the HVX.



...and no need for 35mm adaptors!

I'm confused - why would you say 'no need for a 35mm adapter'?
These are still 1/3" cameras.

androbot2084
09-08-2007, 09:44 AM
Sony claims a progressive scan recording mode on its two new HDV camcorders but the fact remains that no high speed progressive recording is offered like 60p. The only camera that offers that is the sony XDCAM EX. Sony HDV cameras offers 60i recording but that uses obsolete interlace scanning.

Barry_Green
09-08-2007, 10:03 AM
Lets hope that with JVC, Sony and Canon having 1/3" offerings with interchangable lenses that Panasonic steps up with the next incarnation of the HVX.

Gauntlet's been thrown down, that's for sure.

What'd be really nice is if Sony uses the same lens mount as the JVC. Panasonic used to offer a 1/3" bayonet that (I believe) used the same lens mount as the current JVC HD1xx/HD2xx lineup, so if JVC, Panasonic, and Sony all use the same lens mount, that makes it so much more attractive to the lens manufacturers. I don't know that Canon would adapt, they use their own XL mount, but if at least the other three all got on the same page it should really multiply the lens choices for users.

moldcad
09-08-2007, 10:47 AM
Sony claims a progressive scan recording mode on its two new HDV camcorders but the fact remains that no high speed progressive recording is offered like 60p. The only camera that offers that is the sony XDCAM EX. Sony HDV cameras offers 60i recording but that uses obsolete interlace scanning.

Who said interlacing is obsolete? It probably will be, but currently 90% of HD 1080 broadcast is done interlaced (720p is another story).

androbot2084
09-08-2007, 11:43 AM
Actually a lot of 1080i broadcasting can be considered
progressive because it is captured in 1080p24 or 1080p30 and converted to a 1080i stream using progressively segmented frame technology. When television was first invented it used a superior
progressive scan technology. Analog television never needed a 480i interlace scanning system because a 360p60 progressive scanning system would have fit the limited bandwidth of the then available technology and would have delivered better picture quality. Interlace television is obsolete now as well as obsolete when it was invented over 70 years ago.

cckid
09-09-2007, 09:37 AM
Hi,

Flexible Lens Options
The handheld camcorder is supplied with an interchangeable HD Carl Zeiss lens with 1/3” bayonet joint mechanism, allowing the flexibility of attaching existing 2/3” or 1/2” lenses with a standard lens adaptor. Lenses from the popular Digital SLR – a System from Sony can also be used with a special adaptor.

What does this really mean? Remove the stock lense, use the sony special adaptor and attach nikon lenses? True or false?

And one more thing....since I am on the verge of buying a hvx-200....I am also wondering when these two cameras will be released? and what will be their price...I am specially interesed in the little fellow and not the shoulder mount...

Barry_Green
09-09-2007, 10:09 PM
What does this really mean? Remove the stock lense, use the sony special adaptor and attach nikon lenses? True or false?
Well, it's Sony, so you can bet a dollar that they mean the lenses used by Sony DSLRs. If Sony DSLRs can use Nikon lenses, then yes. But if Sony DSLRs can't use Nikon lenses, then no.

As for release time, there's no mention at all. Could be six months, could be a year, there's no indication given.

dvpixl
09-10-2007, 12:15 AM
so it pretty much means they are going to sell a 35mm lens adaptor?

TimurCivan
09-10-2007, 12:42 AM
no... they are selling lenses with 1/3" projection area. Like Canon XL1s , XL2, XLH1 series.

ITs not interchangeable in the sense that it lets you use cinema lenses. just other 1/3" lenses.

Giovanni Bertani
09-10-2007, 04:20 AM
I am wondering if this new HDV camera could be a better option than the Canon XH-A1 I am going to buy.

Any idea of the price and the possibility of using 35mm lenses fro Nikon?

Thanks

Giovanni

Giovanni Bertani
09-10-2007, 02:08 PM
Any idea of teh price yet? Thanks

Giovanni

Kholi
09-10-2007, 07:16 PM
Strange little deal, here. Can't tell if they're saying you can use SLR lenses but either way... I wonder how much that sucker costs.

Anyone in the pot for a 15k body? =P

Giovanni Bertani
09-11-2007, 06:34 AM
The new Sony HDV looks that will be around 6500 usd! And will be available in first quarter 2008:

http://ibc.mikkowilson.com/

marketmd
09-11-2007, 06:50 AM
$6500 for HDV? Not worth it no matter what the lenses do.

Giovanni Bertani
09-11-2007, 07:06 AM
"Sony\'s future HDV cams due out Q1 2008. Handheld unit priced about e6500, shoulder version about e8000"


It looks like that the prices are in Euros! So with exchange rate 8962usd and the shoulder 11000usd?

... I think I will order the XH-A1... :shocked:

Cheers

johann
09-11-2007, 10:34 AM
Long post, sorry, but:
Well, the HVX200 is pretty much 2 years old now, and could definitely prosper with an upgrade. Pana's been very successful with it, but can't sit idle. 32gig P2's are around the corner and the size of this little beast is still a great advantage, especially when shooting docs, or like a gorilla. I've been on the fence for a year, 'cause I rent when I need, but buying is just around the corner with the new HVX, I'm certain. I've heard the blues about the battery mount tabs breaking, the built-in lens being sub-par to canon (even to Mr. Carl), and the lack of certain HD ports. And shouldn't 100mbs just blow away a max of 25mbs hdv? Why is there even any need for comparisons?! But just look what happened the last time Pana paid attention...!
Hopefully the new HVX drops (has dropped) the DVtape drive to make more room for serious upgrades. How many of you actually use it? (I just "unleash" my old Pana GS400! Haha! :>) Here's to Panasonic maximizing the HVX's size/quality ratio to blow away a thousand upcoming alternatives. As a serious doc maker, I just want the best hardware to be cost effective. You can stop prancing. I don't care who you are. Just deliver me the goods!!!!

marketmd
09-11-2007, 11:10 AM
I shoot for the web. Is there any reason I should choose the HVX over the DVX?

TimurCivan
09-11-2007, 11:15 AM
, the built-in lens being sub-par to canon

I dont believe that to be true at all. I think they are about equal, but the canon lens, being pushed further with a 20x shows alot more chroma abberation.

Ursa
09-12-2007, 05:31 AM
Jeez Louise.. I can't believe Sony these days. When I owned a TRV900 10 years ago, I was a REALLY HAPPY man. A confident customer. But these days all Sony does is introduce yesterday's technology and downstripped stuff at a higher price than all competitors... It's really strange. I guess they must've done some circulation at the top level. New director(s) can't exactly be proud. They haven't realeased anything revolutionary for very long. The XDCAM EX Could've been a Pana KILLER if they'd released it earlier. But now: every station that needed tapeless has gone there.

Seems like they're losing their market leading position... Especially now with the PS3 and blu-ray competitors too.. well well... I believe the company's management is not doing a good job right now.

They'll probably come back even more aggressive in a couple of years and win back their position. (Meaning lots of goodies for us).

This post was not intended as a flame post, just MHO.

Noel Evans
09-12-2007, 07:49 AM
$6500 for HDV? Not worth it no matter what the lenses do.

My suggestion, and I make no bones about this is, is stop reading the propogated bs and see the real world results.

The great thing about the interweb is it spreads knowledge. The down side is it spreads bs. Your comments are rediculous insofar as they write off a cam without any evidence of capability. Im not going to make this too technical as I dont want to end up in a game of this is and that is like chidren. But just outright comments like that are based on first iterations of HDV not current.

EDITED FOR CONFIRMATION

Im not going to argue that HDV is beter than DVCProHD as with the much higher bandwidth of DVCProHD it more than makes up for the difference. But for a moment consider what the camera can achieve before writing it off.

Barry_Green
09-12-2007, 08:49 AM
Fact -- DVCPRO HD is based on the mpeg1 codec

Really? Never heard anything like this. Do you have a source for this?


But for a moment consider what the camera can achieve before writing it off.
Agreed.

LuckyStudio 13
09-12-2007, 09:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN9dPDNNljg

SPZ
09-13-2007, 01:47 AM
With the new CF recorder

http://www.convergent-design.com/downloads/Flash%20XDR.pdf

These cameras look a lot more attractive. I believe the question now is the resolution of the chips and the lens features more than the on camera recording media- one can keep an HDV media backup and record a 160mbs 4:2:2 mpeg 2 intraframe master, for example.

Noel Evans
09-13-2007, 02:16 AM
Really? Never heard anything like this. Do you have a source for this?


Barry I had a source which I cant locate at present, searcched for an hour, and have as such edited my post. If and when I can track it down I will post it up of course.

harddrive
09-13-2007, 04:02 AM
With the new CF recorder


http://www.convergent-design.com/dow...lash%20XDR.pdf

These cameras look a lot more attractive.
That link doesn't work for me........?

SPZ
09-13-2007, 05:30 AM
That link doesn't work for me........?

Sorry, try this one

http://www.convergent-design.com/downloads/Flash%20XDR.pdf

Kholi
09-13-2007, 04:59 PM
Yeah, SPZ. That is something that I've been thinking, as well. The XDR adds another level of yum to SDI out cameras.

Sigh. Technology is a pin.

I'm glad FILM won't die any time soon, or we'd all be working for peanuts in the near future.

Noel Evans
09-14-2007, 08:52 AM
Seems like they're losing their market leading position... Especially now with the PS3 and blu-ray competitors too.. well well... I believe the company's management is not doing a good job right now.

Sorry this not a personal post - but with most of the broadcast shooters I know invested in XDcam I dont see Sony is doing such a bad job, and let me tell you I see many here in Japan. Most of the Japanese market is sown up in Sony, Americans, Canadians, Europeans (pick a country) - the ones I see here shooting are 80% on the Sony. The next highest in Japan would have to be Ikegami.

Barry_Green
09-14-2007, 09:25 AM
It all comes down to the effectiveness of the territory's marketing division, really. I'd never seen such a Pro-Sony country as Australia (I mean, Panasonic didn't even have actual Panasonic representation there until last year.) But then I went to southeast Asia and it's comparatively hard to even find Sony; probably 80% of the southeast Asian broadcast market is Panasonic.

Here in America this was solidly Sony-only territory until DVCPRO came out; something on the order of 75% of news stations switched to Panasonic then.

mikkowilson
09-14-2007, 09:49 AM
Europe has been all Sony for a long time .. mostly because Sony has very strong customer support (at least by reputation) here .. whereas Panasonic has been relativly invisible on many fronts for a long time.
That beeing said, DVCPRO-25 & -50 are very common production formats for those that can't afford full out Digitbeta. And P2 is dooing prety well alongside XDCAM with, especially with the move to solid state.

- Mikko

Noel Evans
09-14-2007, 04:48 PM
I'd never seen such a Pro-Sony country as Australia (I mean, Panasonic didn't even have actual Panasonic representation there until last year.)

Ain't that the truth. Though the HVX has at least introduced the p2 workflow, espeially with the younger crowd and with internet proliferation I expect it will even up in the future to some extent. (EDIT - Many broadcast shows are using HVX as B cams for street shooting etc now also - and I think you mentoned before Barry that ABC have taken it up)

We in Australia have always been led to believe that Sony represents not only the latest but also the quality, I think thats a common perception.

Oh on a quick consumer camera note - the battle is really on here at the moment, from TV advertising and other media. Yesterday I saw a Sony AVCHD cam tvcm followed immediatley by one from Pana, and again yesterday, on a train here, one side was plastered with the Sony AVCHD offerings the other by the Panasonic. Trying to think purely from a customer perspective - I think the Sony campaign may win more hearts with some of the images and the way they are advertising. The Panasonic isnt as warm and fuzzy and Japanese do like warm and fuzzy - woman playing with her dog, in a beautiful house, beautiful clear blue sky outside - she captures it all on her Sony and then plugs it straight in to her Sony Plasma that kind of thing.

Barry_Green
09-14-2007, 04:52 PM
Seriously I was amazed -- I mean, the DVX is the biggest hit Panasonic's ever had, and down in Australia they were like "DVX-what? We use the PD170 down here, mate!"

Sony's probably never had a bigger flop than BetaSX. It landed with a wet splat everywhere they launched it. But in Australia, it's pretty much BetaSX from sea to shining sea.

Bizarre.

Which probably made it all the more shocking when the ABC dumped Sony and went exclusively with P2. That must have really sent some eyebrows raising round about.

Didn't know about Japan though. That's pretty wild.

SPZ
09-15-2007, 01:42 AM
Hong-Kong's broadcasters are mainly using sony, too. Panasonic is doing well in China, though.

Vincent Wong Yoon Wei
09-15-2007, 08:53 AM
It all comes down to the effectiveness of the territory's marketing division, really. I'd never seen such a Pro-Sony country as Australia (I mean, Panasonic didn't even have actual Panasonic representation there until last year.) But then I went to southeast Asia and it's comparatively hard to even find Sony; probably 80% of the southeast Asian broadcast market is Panasonic.

Here in America this was solidly Sony-only territory until DVCPRO came out; something on the order of 75% of news stations switched to Panasonic then.
Which Southeast Asia country did you go to cause here in Malaysia, we still use Sony Betacam or Dvcam for most stuff (news, MCP, drama, documentary, telemovie).

While recent years have seen invasion of DVX but they are still mainly relegated to smaller shows or reality TV.

Canon is almost non-existant on pro video market level.

For still photogaphy, they are the king here though.

Barry_Green
09-15-2007, 09:49 AM
India, Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, Indonesia, Vietnam. It's my understanding that the broadcast industry is running about 70% Panasonic right now.

johann
09-15-2007, 01:16 PM
[quote=Vincent Wong Yoon Wei;1048880]Which Southeast Asia country did you go to cause here in Malaysia, we still use Sony Betacam or Dvcam for most stuff (news, MCP, drama, documentary, telemovie).

While recent years have seen invasion of DVX but they are still mainly relegated to smaller shows or reality TV.

Canon is almost non-existant on pro video market level.

This is the same situation in Taiwan. I met an indi-guy doing a doc for a ceramic museum with his DVX - a young filmmaker in love! (with his DVX!) I've worked on several commercials and they've been first, film and second, Digibeta. Yet Taiwan is also very techno-driven. In six years I can't remember having to open a shop door - they're all auto! I've talked to many camera ops in the industry. It comes down to cost and what everyone else is doing. A slight switch by a few could become a huge movement. I think P2 could really dominate here. However, it seems Panasonic has all it's brains in development. Just ask any pana customers in Canada....

drdimento
09-17-2007, 07:41 AM
All this hype on HDV on the HiDef scene Can folks really live in the professional world with GOP? We've edited both GOP and I-frame and found that GOP is terrible. I much prefer the Intra myself and is ultimately stunning in looks as compared to any GOP.

Others thoughts on this?

harddrive
09-17-2007, 04:18 PM
Others thoughts on this?
There's inter and inter, and intra and intra. And experiences may vary depending on how powerful such as the editing hardware is - try to edit an interframe codec on a weak computer and you'll struggle. Do it on a high performance model and the problem goes away. A bit like comparing diesel and petrol engines, very difficult (impossible) to generalise.

ChuckS
09-22-2007, 09:51 AM
It all comes down to the effectiveness of the territory's marketing division, really. I'd never seen such a Pro-Sony country as Australia (I mean, Panasonic didn't even have actual Panasonic representation there until last year.) But then I went to southeast Asia and it's comparatively hard to even find Sony; probably 80% of the southeast Asian broadcast market is Panasonic.

Here in America this was solidly Sony-only territory until DVCPRO came out; something on the order of 75% of news stations switched to Panasonic then.

I don't know much about news stations but recently I completed a DVCProHD project for broadcast, we generally us Sony HDCam and get it QC'd at IVC in Burbank so didn't think twice about sending the tape there. Shortly after the tape arrived I received a call asking me what this tape was for and was told that they didn't have a single DVCProHD deck.

IVC is part of Point 360 which owns something north of 20 large post facilities and between them they have ONE DVCPrHD deck on Highland Drive in Hollywood. Interestingly we chose DVCProHD because the event was on the east coast and we could NOT get 11 Sony HDCam's but getting a truck with that many Vericams was easy.

It's interesting how territorial this format war has become. :kali:

Noel Evans
09-23-2007, 07:56 AM
All this hype on HDV on the HiDef scene Can folks really live in the professional world with GOP? We've edited both GOP and I-frame and found that GOP is terrible. I much prefer the Intra myself and is ultimately stunning in looks as compared to any GOP.

Others thoughts on this?

I think it has little to do with Long GOP or Intra, but more to do with the particular flavour.

Then before any of that....... codec/lense/other technical bs you can think of.... comes the shooter.

And it has least to do with interweby thingy propogation of misnomer's.

Noel Evans
09-23-2007, 07:58 AM
It's interesting how territorial this format war has become. :kali:

Sure is. I guess its important to care less about format and more about your needs and what you can deliver.