HV20 for Production use?

[Katana2040]

Greetings all! Here is my question for you all: How would you rate the Canon HV20 as the main camera for short/feature film work. Low-budget indie-style of course. I am not so much obsessed with which camera I use, but the final result I can achieve. From what I have seen? This camera is brilliant. Especially with the addition of the lens adapters that are available, plus the usual good lighting/color correction. Any thoughts?

[Jeff Anderson]

With the addition of a 35mm adapter this camera seems like a nice solution for the budget filmmaker. I have no actual experience with it but its main faults for me are lack of manual controls, which the 35mm adapter will give you for focus and iris. But then your looking at getting an HD monitor, rails, etc and your costs are getting high. I'd be temtped to at least look at using a used dvx instead without 35mm adapter. And if you havent edited HDV I would check to see that your system is capable of handling it. My experience (sony HDV handycam) has been that I cant stand HDV (editing in premiere) and must convert to something like cineform (already had it for the HVX) makes it quite useable. Just another step in the process though and something to think about. That and dont forget that people will judge you by what your camera looks like whether or not the footage is stunning.

[skinnyboy]

I've been using the HV20 for a couple months now. I've did a 48 Hour movie with it, have another short I need to edit, and am doing a paid promo video with it.

I do not have a 35mm adapter and have no plans to get one. Focus has not yet been an issue, though I'm sure I'll be able to come up with a situation where the lack of decent focus will cause me some consternation.

This camera is perfect for narrative movies, as long as you know what you are doing. I'd be comfortable doing a feature with it as well. Though I'd have to get a couple more hard drives...

[Katana2040]

Good looking out guys! I don't have this camera myself, but I did come across a REALLY sweet deal on a DVX100, and I like the fact that it can be upgraded with the "Andromeda" if I really needed to go HD. I actually really appreciate both cameras for what they can do. I recently saw someone on this site post a "Battlestar Gallactica" short that was shot on the HV20, and it is just stunning. I also saw the trailer for "The Men Who Fell" which was shot on the DVX100, along with "Similo"...simply amazing stuff.

[Mark Dog]

forget the dvx and get the hv20

[Jack_Felis]

Well, I recently made some test footage and I plan to do all of my school projects and possibly a Hallows Fest entry with it until my RED is ready in November. The test footage looked fantastic and, unlike my GL1 with a 20X zoom, the HV20 had no trouble zooming in and recording a beautiful blue moon in the sky. On the GL1 the moon came out as a tiny white dot with no definition and, more than that, I couldn't get focus on it either. Besides that, the color was great, the resolution was amazing, and, using Barry's manual controls method, exposure was no problem at all. Would I use it for a commercial production? Sure, why not? 35mm adapter or not, you just can't go wrong with it. Plus, having Final Cut Studio 2 and Compressor 3 really made conforming to 23.98 easy and it saved on hard drive space compared to the straight 1080i60 footage.

[Katana2040]

Thanks again guys! As we speak, I am OFFICIALLY sold on the HV20. I love the 'DVX' for what it is, and what it does, but I have seen some VERY impressive footage created with the HV20. I love the flexibility that it offers as far as resolution and color depth.

[Ian-T]

When you do get it.....you'll be shocked at how much it looks like a toy compared to the DVX...but......man....does it put out some sharp and beautiful pictures.

[Katana2040]

I hear you! I have a file of downloaded footage from other people and my goodness...some of this stuff is just breathtaking. I am not so concerned with how the camera itself looks because most of the stuff I do are my own creative endeavors, ie: feature/short film work etc. I really do like this thing. Now, can someone tell me or show me what the footage looks like when it is ran right from the HDMI into an "Intensity" set up? THIS I would like to see!

[DeSica]

This thing shoots in SD as well, yes? Does it shoot 24p in SD?

I'm putting together a low budget doc, and have been thinking about picking this thing up while waiting for the prices of panny stuff to drop here in Canada (DVX 100b is like $3400 plus tax...so almost $3900. HVX is around $5500, plus tax.)

I don't know if I want to shoot in HD, since my G4 won't be able to handle it, and if I get a G5 through the same hook up I used for my G4, it still might not have enough power and storage for good HD editing.

I was going to use my Sony PD 100a and shoot at 30fps in progressive scan, but I have seen some great footage off the HV20, so I want to check it out a bit further.

[Oynk]

I'm putting together a low budget doc, ....

I was going to use my Sony PD 100a and shoot at 30fps in progressive scan, but I have seen some great footage off the HV20, so I want to check it out a bit further.

It is likely that the great footage you have seen has been from controlled shooting.
Documentary shooting is often where you will most appreciate lots of manual controls (not found on the HV20)
If you are working on a documentary, and shooting in standard def, I think you will get better images with more manual control. Just my opinion...

[clang]

according to the brochure, 24p/(or 25P for PAL) is HD only - which seems odd, as I'd have thought SD would be easier for the camera to process than HD, presuming that 24p/25p requires extra work by the camera

[DeSica]

In most cases, the comment about manual control would be absolutely true (and the PD 100a does have manual control over a bunch of elements). What I neglected to mention is that I am shooting a sit down, interview type doc.

I am looking at lighting options, as well as sound (with the PD 100a, I can always run a lav to the camera XLR input if I need to, or mount my Rode NTG-2 as backup and run a lav into a zoom h4).

Numerous tests show that the Sony does okay in room type lighting, but I would be keen to see how the HV20 does. As far as sound, I would need a recorder of some sort, but I would probably pick up a Rode Video mic for backup sound anyway.

[DeSica]

according to the brochure, 24p/(or 25P for PAL) is HD only - which seems odd, as I'd have thought SD would be easier for the camera to process than HD, presuming that 24p/25p requires extra work by the camera

Hmmm...I thought as much. So how much power/storage would one be looking at to edit something like 230 minutes of HD footage from one of these little wonders down to something like 85 minutes or so?

[e-steve]

Just from my own recent experience...

I have been shooting our doc using primarily the dvx100, and recently have been using the HV20 for situations where I need a smaller camera that doesn't draw too much attention to it.

Of course, the audio is just ok, especially when I only use on camera, although I could put my G2 on it if I needed to.

Last week I took some footage into a post production facility to do some transfer tests in FCP6 - they hadn't had experience with the HV20 24p footage yet, so they wanted to determine the best workflow. After running the footage through Compressor to do the inverse telecine, they were shocked at the quality. "Amazing" and "Incredible" were used several times...so from my perspective the HV20 is well worth the money as a second camera. I'm not sure how well my dvx footage is going to hold up against it!

FYI -- there are people getting HV20's now for around 800 bucks...check Fatwallet.com for the current deals. The best deal out there now is getting a 10% off coupon from AAA and buying online at Circuit City.

[marketmd]

I recorded the recent eclipse with the HV20...simply stunning. Plus it has a 200x digital zoom which is very clean...exceptional for viewing small craters (and surveillance work too, i'd bet!)

[marketmd]

This thing shoots in SD as well, yes? Does it shoot 24p in SD?

Not good in SD. DVX superior.

No 24p in SD.

For the web, the DVX is the best web bar none.

[marketmd]

If you are working on a documentary, and shooting in standard def, I think you will get better images with more manual control. Just my opinion...

Amen to that. An HV20 for docu work is just madness. Plus rolling shutter will kill you on fast moves, action shots, or pans/dollies. You can do anything run and gun with a DVX, and the HV20 is simply awful in low light.

Remember I own both. But I would never dream of using an HV20 for docu work. Plus every time you turn it on you have to go through the "cell phone trick" crap, and with a wide-angle adapter that is almost impossible. So you can't react quickly to events. With DVX, turn it on and it will do anything you want in 2 seconds.

[marketmd]

What I neglected to mention is that I am shooting a sit down, interview type doc. .

For such controlled circumstances the HV20 is the best choice. Plenty of time to adjust exposure properly and get audio just right before shooting.

[marketmd]

Hmmm...I thought as much. So how much power/storage would one be looking at to edit something like 230 minutes of HD footage from one of these little wonders down to something like 85 minutes or so?

NATIVE HDV files are about 13GB/hour. However if your edit system captures using an "intermediary codec" (eg. Cineform, etc), you could be looking at up to 40GB per hour. Depends on your NLE.

Figure 50 to 150GB for your requirements, considering original footage and final footage space requirements.

[DaFireMedic]

This thing shoots in SD as well, yes? Does it shoot 24p in SD?



As has been said, no 24p in SD. However, SD footage is very good, significantly better than the VX2100 that I use. The HV20 lacks the low light sensitivity of the VX2100, but in adequate light it is quite impressive.

[vsansal]

There is no 24p in DV however if you shoot 24p HDV and downconvert to SD using DV lock it is still 24p with the pulldown. So once the pulldown is removed, it is 24p DV.

[Katana2040]

Hello all! It's been a while since I've been back to this thread, but I thought I would come by and drop a quick update. I DID end up getting the HV20, and needless to say, I am very impressed with this camera. Is it limited compared to the bigger cameras? No doubt. I think that if the filmmaker is smart with their movement of the camera, and using a good lighting scheme, along with whatever color correction in post, they can get a really sweet look. I am still doing my own "R&D", but thus far, I love it. I have a few short scripts that I will use to really test this thing, and hopefully, it will turn out well. Best of luck to you all, and thanks for the advice! Let's shoot something!:kali:

[AuditoryVisuals]

I'm glad you like it.

[Winston Vargas]

Greetings all! Here is my question for you all: How would you rate the Canon HV20 as the main camera for short/feature film work. Low-budget indie-style of course. I am not so much obsessed with which camera I use, but the final result I can achieve. From what I have seen? This camera is brilliant. Especially with the addition of the lens adapters that are available, plus the usual good lighting/color correction. Any thoughts?
Check out a dressed up HV20 with a medium format adapter attached and a modified screen as a viewfinder ( flipped ). Forget what people think of your camera and what it looks like , it's what you do with it that's important.

www.freewebs.com/wvargas

[Katana2040]

I agree Winston! Hey I did get a chance to check out your adapter site. What are your prices like? Best of luck with that!

[coconutmonkey]

Check out the trailer for the feature film "Flamingo" shot with the HV20.

http://www.vimeo.com/692745 (http://www.vimeo.com/692745)

www.myspace.com/flamingothemovie (http://www.myspace.com/flamingothemovie)

[sean90291]

I have been really happy with the HV20 and used it with the Redrock M2 on several projects, including one for national broadcast. A recent project we made, entitled Writers Block, shot with the HV20 and Redrock, is currently on the main page over at www.ithentic.com.

(re-pasting my reply only cuz i finally figured out how you guys do the banner signatures...took me a few tries cuz i'm dim)

[Katana2040]

I have been really happy with the HV20 and used it with the Redrock M2 on several projects, including one for national broadcast. A recent project we made, entitled Writers Block, shot with the HV20 and Redrock, is currently on the main page over at www.ithentic.com (http://www.ithentic.com).

(re-pasting my reply only cuz i finally figured out how you guys do the banner signatures...took me a few tries cuz i'm dim)


So that was YOU who did that piece! I saw it a while back and I loved it. I picked up a DIY 35mm lens adapter, and while it isn't a Brevis or a Redrock, I am looking forward to testing it out. I am still in the "R&D" phase, but I do have a few short scripts I will test soon. Again, good stuff with Writer's Block!

[Winston Vargas]

I am presently shooting a music video with the HV20 and my medium format adapter. You can see the camera set up... www.freewebs.com/wvargas (http://www.freewebs.com/wvargas) also on www.youtube.com (http://www.youtube.com) look under HV20 on steroids or under winston vargas. You'll get a kick out of it. Picture quality of the HV20 is great...

[Winston Vargas]

The price of the adapter is $749.95 and the lenses are available from about $80.00 for the 80mm F/2.8 and up from there for the wider lenses.

[Winston Vargas]

Jack do you have any ideas on how to compress properly HDV material to go on Vimeo.com in Hi Res. I have some footage but have had no luck on the proper compression. Everyone wants footage of my Prodofa medium format adapter, but I am having problems posting it.. any ideas???

Winston

[darkprints]

Jack do you have any ideas on how to compress properly HDV material to go on Vimeo.com in Hi Res. I have some footage but have had no luck on the proper compression. Everyone wants footage of my Prodofa medium format adapter, but I am having problems posting it.. any ideas???

Winston

Did you check the Vimeo site?

http://vimeo.com/help/hd

http://vimeo.com/forums

[Winston Vargas]

It is likely that the great footage you have seen has been from controlled shooting.
Documentary shooting is often where you will most appreciate lots of manual controls (not found on the HV20)
If you are working on a documentary, and shooting in standard def, I think you will get better images with more manual control. Just my opinion...
Please check out documentary style shooting with the HV20 and the Pro Optic 645 adapter, www.vimeo.com/847176
to check camera setup www.freewebs.com/wvargas

[Nathyn]

Hello all! It's been a while since I've been back to this thread, but I thought I would come by and drop a quick update. I DID end up getting the HV20, and needless to say, I am very impressed with this camera. Is it limited compared to the bigger cameras? No doubt. I think that if the filmmaker is smart with their movement of the camera, and using a good lighting scheme, along with whatever color correction in post, they can get a really sweet look. I am still doing my own "R&D", but thus far, I love it. I have a few short scripts that I will use to really test this thing, and hopefully, it will turn out well. Best of luck to you all, and thanks for the advice! Let's shoot something!:kali:
I personally really like the image. I had some doubts at first (I gave up my DVX100 for this and the adapter and lens) but I was very impressed. I do get some strobing issues every once and awhile but I know there's a remedy for it but I have to work on it. By the there's a great HV20 tutorial here for HV20 users: http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=1605


Check out a dressed up HV20 with a medium format adapter attached and a modified screen as a viewfinder ( flipped ). Forget what people think of your camera and what it looks like , it's what you do with it that's important.

www.freewebs.com/wvargas
Dude that's insane!!!! I'm getting twoneil's 35mm adapter (You can see that here:
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=1605 ) for the Nikkon lens. I already found a nice lens for it and he says he's assembling the adapter now.

-Nate

[Katana2040]

I personally really like the image. I had some doubts at first (I gave up my DVX100 for this and the adapter and lens) but I was very impressed. I do get some strobing issues every once and awhile but I know there's a remedy for it but I have to work on it. By the there's a great HV20 tutorial here for HV20 users: http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=1605


Dude that's insane!!!! I'm getting twoneil's 35mm adapter (You can see that here:
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=1605 ) for the Nikkon lens. I already found a nice lens for it and he says he's assembling the adapter now.

-Nate

Nate, you will REALLY love Twoneil's adapter. I can't speak on behalf of the aforementioned adapter, or any other one, but I have the one that Twoneil produces, and it works great. My advice? If or when you get it, add some kind of macro/achromat lens to it. Trust me on that one!

[Bruce Morgan]

This is a great thread .I have and use an HV20.
I use it at a second digital camera on a feature which camera one "A" is a 35mm film camera .
I recently used the canon hv 20 on a standard def video shot for a client .
We swapped out the dvx100 a for the hv20 because the hv20 "sees " red numbers on a digial read out where as the dvx100a turns the red numbers to mush .
It is reassuring to hear that people are getting results from their Canon hv20 work flow .
My question is -to anyone here -
SHOULD I BUY ANOTHER HV20? Or has there been a comparable consumer hi def camera which has shown up and is better?
Thanks for some feed back on this question .
Regards
Bruce

[vsansal]

It is not better than hv20 but if you prefer a tapeless camcorder and don't mind working with AVCHD check out Canon HF10.

[Sean Michael]

Bruce, since the HV20 is a discontinued model, you can find some great deals! I bought my local Circuit City's last HV20 today for $294.

This is my second HV20; I'm going to mount it (permanently) to a Letus Mini.

[vsansal]

Bruce, since the HV20 is a discontinued model, you can find some great deals! I bought my local Circuit City's last HV20 today for $294.

This is my second HV20; I'm going to mount it (permanently) to a Letus Mini.

How the heck did you do that. Was it a display unit. What a deal.

[Sean Michael]

How the heck did you do that. Was it a display unit. What a deal.

Yes, it was a display unit. And although it has all accessories and looks like new, it has one issue -- a messed up manual focus wheel. But that shouldn't matter for me since I'm mounting it to an adapter anyway, and will be doing manual focusing with the 35mm lenses.

The math went like this....

Circuit City's HV20 markdown price: $520
minus $15 off coupon (current promotion) = $505
minus another 20% or so for being a "display model" = $394
minus another $100 for the messed up focus wheel = $294

A couple of months ago, Sears was selling their HV20 stock for $278. I missed out on that deal (they all went fast), but there are still deals to be found.