CNC, Milling, & Metalworking Equipment?

[brokenjack]

I've made alot of my own gear, and I'd like to take it to the next level. I've heard mention of milling and CNC work. What decent benchtop stuff is out there, and how does one approach learning how to use the stuff.

[staygettin]

I am interested in a cnc machine myself and I am in the market to buy one now anyone have any suggestions on models to look at?

[Bob Hill]

brokenjack,

You might want to try out a local tech college and see about taking machining classes. It is a good place to start and many times you can have access to some pretty good equipment while you are learning. As for equipment, I'd suggest taking a look at it after the class(es). That said, check out www.homebuiltstabilizers.com There is a lot of good info there on equipment.

[brokenjack]

brokenjack,

You might want to try out a local tech college and see about taking machining classes. It is a good place to start and many times you can have access to some pretty good equipment while you are learning. As for equipment, I'd suggest taking a look at it after the class(es). That said, check out www.homebuiltstabilizers.com There is a lot of good info there on equipment.

I plan on doing that, but since I got a baby and all, reading is about the only thing I have time for these days, and the retreat to the garage after he goes down.

[siniarch]

Hey Brokenjack,
Check out this CNC machine "Taig Tools Micro Mill " It seems to have a few options, but the 2026 CNC-equipped for $1885 seems to be one of the best for the price that I've found.
http://www.computersculpture.com/Pages/Index_Production.html (http://www.computersculpture.com/Pages/Index_Production.html)
and let me know what you think.

[shred444]

you're in luck.... sears sells a CNC machine now.

http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/01/computer_contro.html

[siniarch]

Shred, I don't think that will work with metal, and for the price he is much better off with the Taig Tools Micro Mill in my opinion.

[shred444]

Shred, I don't think that will work with metal, and for the price he is much better off with the Taig Tools Micro Mill in my opinion.

agreed

[TroutPro]

I would learn to write the code first, that's the time consuming part of the process. I'm sure you can find a shop with a CNC that will run your program once it's written.

[siniarch]

writing code?

How does that work TroutPro?

I thought you could use a CAD software (like Autocad or so) and integrate that with a CNC software (like Mach 3 - http://www.machsupport.com/) and once you adjust settings and get it all figured out, you wouldn't have to write any code.

Am I wrong thinking this would be the process?

[Max R. Wilson]

I built a CNC earlier this year, i still have to make 3 small brackets before i can really use it though. I spent about $1100 and two weeks to build it.

I design it in cad and then use the G-Code generator and then run the G-Code in Mach 3.

Check this out
http://max-wilson.com/category/projects/cnc-machine/

[siniarch]

webdog,
man that is pretty bad ass. nice work. as much as I love building things, I don't think I have the patience to build one myself. (maybe if I had a full shop)
Great work though. :)

[JasonFox]

I built a CNC earlier this year, i still have to make 3 small brackets before i can really use it though. I spent about $1100 and two weeks to build it.

I design it in cad and then use the G-Code generator and then run the G-Code in Mach 3.

Check this out
http://max-wilson.com/category/projects/cnc-machine/

I think I speak for many when I say, "Holy crap."

[twocik23]

"I've made alot of my own gear, and I'd like to take it to the next level. I've heard mention of milling and CNC work. What decent benchtop stuff is out there, and how does one approach learning how to use the stuff."



Start off with learning the machine manually, then all of the tooling first. This is not something to just jump into, there is alot of practice and reading involved (Gcode/CNC is a whole another animal).

Example

If your code is off by a few thousands and your machine crashes, it's nothing but blood or money. I couldn't tell you how many bits I've broke from just the littlest mistake and at $15.00 - $120.00 each bit this can add up. This is why I say learn everything manually first, believe me it will help you in the long run. Now they have simulator programs that help check your work/code for crashes, but these programs only help so much, it really comes down to experience.

If you do decide on a machine, definitely build an enclosure for it. That way if a tool or part breaks, you're somewhat protected from flying objects. I've come very close to almost loosing my hand, finger and an eye. Oh and WEAR EYE PROTECTION! :) When getting into metal working machines, it's not a toy. It's taking me almost two years to finally get a brief understanding of things.

Here are a few pictures of my CNC mill working on steel, pictures aren't best of quality (cheap camera), but you get the point. :)

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40989&d=1185026926


Now it's kind of hard to see in these photos what happened. My girlfriend thought it'd be a great idea to take photos of my bloody hand just before she fixed them up (She's a nurse).

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40991&d=1185027710

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40992&d=1185027710



Here's the new machine I plan to purchase in the next month or so. If interested check out the packages, very well priced.



http://www.tormach.com/Product_PCNC_main.html

[Bob Hill]

I am a big proponent of starting out with manual equipment before jumping to CNC. CNC is the way to go if you have to make a quantity of parts or for certain specific operations. That said if you are doing one offs it is often times faster to just do it manually.


Twocik,

I think you'll like the Tormach machine. My wife used to work for them before I put her to work with me ;)

[chuck coburn]

"I've made alot of my own gear, and I'd like to take it to the next level. I've heard mention of milling and CNC work. What decent benchtop stuff is out there, and how does one approach learning how to use the stuff."



Start off with learning the machine manually, then all of the tooling first. This is not something to just jump into, there is alot of practice and reading involved (Gcode/CNC is a whole another animal).

Example

If your code is off by a few thousands and your machine crashes, it's nothing but blood or money. I couldn't tell you how many bits I've broke from just the littlest mistake and at $15.00 - $120.00 each bit this can add up. This is why I say learn everything manually first, believe me it will help you in the long run. Now they have simulator programs that help check your work/code for crashes, but these programs only help so much, it really comes down to experience.

If you do decide on a machine, definitely build an enclosure for it. That way if a tool or part breaks, you're somewhat protected from flying objects. I've come very close to almost loosing my hand, finger and an eye. Oh and WEAR EYE PROTECTION! :) When getting into metal working machines, it's not a toy. It's taking me almost two years to finally get a brief understanding of things.

Here are a few pictures of my CNC mill working on steel, pictures aren't best of quality (cheap camera), but you get the point. :)

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40989&d=1185026926


Now it's kind of hard to see in these photos what happened. My girlfriend thought it'd be a great idea to take photos of my bloody hand just before she fixed them up (She's a nurse).

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40991&d=1185027710

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40992&d=1185027710



Here's the new machine I plan to purchase in the next month or so. If interested check out the packages, very well priced.



http://www.tormach.com/Product_PCNC_main.html

I agree it's a good idea to learn the manual machine first.
That looks like a nice unit your thinking about getting. I like the fact that they are so open about their parts sourcing and the quality they demand. You don't see that very often. lol

[txsbluesguy]

as some one who has recently started making my own gear and self teaching the art of metal working,I agree with the learning manual stuff first, there is soooo many other things to learn before doing any CNC will help. things like material selection, what order to do the machining steps,holding down the material and setting up tooling for squareness and alignment,how to measure mark and machine with PRECESION, etc. metal work is so much more unforgiving than wood working especially when working in small scale. but I have found it to be very rewarding and is feeling quite similar to the feeling when editing a really good piece, when things align and fall into the right places and the whole is soo much greater than the parts. its a blast

[twocik23]

Wow Bob it's a small world. :) Yes I've heard nothing but good things about this mill. The only problems that I've read was, a leaky coolant tray and few things with the control software.




"I am a big proponent of starting out with manual equipment before jumping to CNC. CNC is the way to go if you have to make a quantity of parts or for certain specific operations. That said if you are doing one offs it is often times faster to just do it manually."


Yes it's great for precision and time, but of no use if don't understand how to use it properly, following with the tools, measuring devices, and material. Now if you're fabricating something with a curvy design, then CNC is essential for this operation.



Here are a few links to get you started (note that all CNC machine controller software uses these codes and different codes , so you'll need to read the manual before you use any machine/control software)



http://xdobs.com/cnc/gcode-introduction.html

http://www.nfrpartners.com/cncfaq.htm#whatisagcode

http://www.linuxcnc.org/handbook/gcode/g-code.html


This site shows what each command does

http://www.cncezpro.com/g00m.cfm


Now when I said learn your tooling, here are a few things to read. Rake angles, helix angle, flutes, chip load per tooth, which cutter tool for the job, Conventional & Climb milling etc... Here's a good one


http://www.americanmachinetools.com/how_to_use_a_milling_machine.htm

http://www.mfg.mtu.edu/cyberman/machining/trad/milling/index.html

[GenJerDan]

What? You mean I shouldn't just plunk down a couple thou at Harbor freight for a mill/lathe?

[twocik23]

Well if anyone is interested, I'm probably going to sell my CNC mill (along with all tooling $$$$$) pretty soon (waiting on the Tormach), maybe I'll take a few pictures and put it in the market place...

[Bob Hill]

Twocik,

Say hi to Brenda for me when you order machine;)

[twocik23]

Does that maybe include a discount ??? lol :)



btw - where do you get your 80/20 ?

[Bob Hill]

I wish it got you a discount but no dice. As for the 80/20 I get it from their regional distributor here in Wisconsin. I go through a lot of the material with the Cameraman's Multitool and all the custom stuff we do.

[brokenjack]

Wow! I haven't checked this tread in a while. Thanks for all of the advice. I agree that CNC is not something I want to jump into. I am more interested in learning to use a manual lathe/mill, and maybe purchasing one for my shop. Don't want to buy anything too fancy since I will probably only use it here and there. Is the Harbor Freight stuff really that bad? I would like to have a tool in front of me while I learn(insert jokes here). If I need to do something complicated I'll just farm it out. I basically just want to work with aluminum.

[twocik23]

HF machines aren't bad at all. There very solid machines and capable of making some really precise parts. The only problem with their machines is that you'll need to fine tune them before use.

DON'T BUY THE 3 in 1 MACHINE!!!!

Not unless you're making cylinder parts that require precision drilling holes, but this could also be done on a drill press.



"I would like to have a tool in front of me while I learn(insert jokes here)."


Yea that's a really bad idea, don't do this! Read Read Read, check your local book store and the internet. Let me see what I can find

[Bob Hill]

Brokenjack,

Going back to what has been said before, I highly recommend you take a class before you decide on a piece of equipment. You may find that once you take the class that you don't need anything more than a good drill press and some layout tools.

[brokenjack]

Yes I'll definitely look into some classes. I'd like to take some welding class as well.

[omni-tracker]

I know I researched this topic for a year before making my decision on which CNC to go with...

http://cncmasters.com/

This page has a good collection of info on the subject as well.

http://desktopcnc.com/

One of the biggest pieces of advice I can give you is make sure you choose a CAD CAM package that has a post processor for your machine. I use Visual Mill...

http://www.mecsoft.com/Mec/

best of luck... it's definitely a journey you are embarking on... :-)

[twocik23]

I'd recommend this DVD if you're looking to see the capabilities of a mill. This DVD will show you how these machines are properly used, but a class would be better. Like bob said, sometimes you could get away with just using a drill press. I've even seen some that have converted a drill press to mill. Now its not the best way to mill things (not as precise), but for little parts it's prefect. Here's another video of what I'm talking about



http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2056&category=-511675330



http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2267&category=-511675330

[Bob Hill]

Let me clarify what I said before about possibly only needing a drill press and some good layout tools. I am not a fan of milling on drill presses at all. What I was saying is that with some ingenuity you can fabricate a wide array of things even if you don't have the ability to cut chips. Being able to precisely drill and tap holes can get you a long way down the road.

[robertwerden]

I have a 4 axis cnc mill. Is there plans available for 35mm adapters for the HVX?

[Taras]

Hi,
The best unit to consider is the Super X3 Mill with CNC conversion kit. Have a look ay www.syil.com for details.
If you are new to the world of CNC, then the best CAM software is Mach4, which is easy to use and is cheap.
If you have not used a mill before then I would recommend doing a short course in its use, try the local technical uni.
There are some good books on the subject, but if you can learn the basic rules then its not rocket science.

Trust this helps

[robertwerden]

thats the mill I have. Although I did not buy it from them.
It really is a beast. I put it together from a kit.