A HVX200 critique

[someday]

They say it's 19bit internal processing.
Try to shoot a very subtle gradient (like a white wall in a very low light situation). (connect the camera to a monitor, but a TV set is far enough for this)
You will see very clearly the color steps. It seem 7 bit per color. Where did all the 19 bit go?
I never saw footage from other cameras with such steps .
And if you want to know what's all that noise of the HVX200, yes it's that. It's steps in luma and color gradients. ( = everywhere)

And to be honest, no setting can lower the noise. Each setting shifts the noise into a different luma level.
Don't even try to lower the color level. The noise will just become greysh.

Still, don't lower the detail. The grain becomes larger.





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[SPZ]

Did you white balance ?

What monitor did you see the footage on? Contrast ratio?

Any 35mm adaptor?

Again, try cine V for the gamma. Try cine-like for the knee. And add detail coring +2.

I've been working with the HVX for long and it workd great for me in low light. Use slower possble shutter- 25 or 24 in 24P or 25P.

NO GAIN.

I have no complains with the camera except for the LCD and light sensibility, wivh is a bit inferior to the DVX. REsolution is more than enough.

[someday]

Preset balance
broadcast monitor
no adapters
all settings possible, 20 hours test with almost all possible settings
no gain

But you really suggest to use 25 shutter speed? I find it unnatural.
I could use synchro scan to lower the shutter from 50 (pal) to 40 or 30




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[SPZ]

Preset balance
broadcast monitor
no adapters
all settings possible, 20 hours test with almost all possible settings
no gain

But you really suggest to use 25 shutter speed? I find it unnatural.
I could use synchro scan to lower the shutter from 50 (pal) to 40 or 30




.


Yes, I use 25 in low light. Have you seen Michael Mann's "Miami Vice" and "Collateral"? Those movies where shot in HD, and Some Night Scenes where shot with 25 shutter (Sony F900, if I'm not mistaken). Just plan your camera movements well.

[Arson]

Try the same thing with any DV or HDV camera and it will be far far worse.
You need to go Viper to avoid it steps in gradients under all lighting conditions.

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

Yes, I use 25 in low light. Have you seen Michael Mann's "Miami Vice" and "Collateral"? Those movies where shot in HD, and Some Night Scenes where shot with 25 shutter (Sony F900, if I'm not mistaken). Just plan your camera movements well.

Collateral was shot with 35mm film (only very few slow motion shots) a pair of Vipers (most of the time) and the f900 when inside the taxi (vipers had to be tethered and therefore could not be used when in moving taxi). Dion Beebe (DP) used lots of gain on the cameras. He claimed as long as the faces were lit and exposed well, he could get away with noise in the background. I am not sure what shutter was used.

[SPZ]

Collateral was shot with 35mm film (only very few slow motion shots) a pair of Vipers (most of the time) and the f900 when inside the taxi (vipers had to be tethered and therefore could not be used when in moving taxi). Dion Beebe (DP) used lots of gain on the cameras. He claimed as long as the faces were lit and exposed well, he could get away with noise in the background. I am not sure what shutter was used.

Indeed.

Miami Vice has a much more "Videoish"look than Collateral, IMO. Not sure about the percentage of shots with which camera, but there was definetly use of slow shutter there.

[someday]

I already did some work at night with shutter at 25. It was nice for some motion effect, but i didn't used it the whole time, it's unpleasant and unnatural to me.
If i switch to synchro scan can i set a shutter speed between 25 and 50 (pal)? If yes what speed do you suggest?



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[SPZ]

I already did some work at night with shutter at 25. It was nice for some motion effect, but i didn't used it the whole time, it's unpleasant and unnatural to me.
If i switch to synchro scan can i set a shutter speed between 25 and 50 (pal)? If yes what speed do you suggest?



.

Since I don't have a problem with 25 shutter (I've shot Macau's International FIreworks Display tv spot entirely in this shutter setting, and am currently shooting a short film 90% shot at night with this shutter speed, also with no complains), I haven't tried synchro scan for different speeds. Maybe you should try? The Higher the speed, the less sensitive is the camera...

[TimurCivan]

well, the HVX200 is a 8bit camera. not a 19bit camera. The internal processing is that high. The recording format is 8bits.





Dion Beebe (DP) used lots of gain on the cameras. He claimed as long as the faces were lit and exposed well, he could get away with noise in the background. I am not sure what shutter was used.

This brings up an interesting point, the Varicam, F900, Viper etc. are all Slower than the HVX200. So the fact that is got an image to beginwith in lowlight is a bloody miracle. Instead of pushing the camera to its limits i wish people would understand that filmmaking needs light. Documentary filmmakers in the 60's 70's 80's all carried hand held floods with them. The fact that the DV revoluton in the late 90's brought about what i think is the one of the most amazing tools ever, the PD150, that camera too pictures in candle light. The proble with the Pd150 was that people got spoiled by the DV light sensitivity.

This is HD, this is lowprice. There will be noise. Accept it.

[Sunstream]

Are you kidding me, do you mean that my $6,000 camera is not as good as a $60,000. Man, I want my money back. I thought if I had one of these things in my hand I'd be a real DP and my movie would get theatrical release.
1/3" chip is the almost the same as 2/3" right?
I thought I could bid on jobs against guys with Varicams and charge 10% less. Just dont tell my clients, OK...

[TimurCivan]

Well, a 6,000$ HVX200 is better than a 1992 Beta cam, which probably was 50,000$ back then.

[Jacquot]

This brings up an interesting point, the Varicam, F900, Viper etc. are all Slower than the HVX200. So the fact that is got an image to beginwith in lowlight is a bloody miracle. Instead of pushing the camera to its limits i wish people would understand that filmmaking needs light. Documentary filmmakers in the 60's 70's 80's all carried hand held floods with them. The fact that the DV revoluton in the late 90's brought about what i think is the one of the most amazing tools ever, the PD150, that camera too pictures in candle light. The proble with the Pd150 was that people got spoiled by the DV light sensitivity. This is HD, this is lowprice. There will be noise. Accept it.

Yeah, I agree. Anyway, light is what image making is about. As a still photographer and a former '70s-'80s 16mm filmmaker, light is both my best friend and my worst enemy. "Low light issues" with the HVX doesn't really bother me. My lighting is probably the very first thing I address. Same issues with film ISO and grain. Noise without light on film due to grain or electronic noise in digital without light. Different look but relatively the same issue. Image making is pretty much writing with light.