View Full Version : "Crapterion" Collection
Tlalconetl
08-11-2007, 11:52 PM
What do others here think of the Criterion Collection? (or as my wife calls it, the Crapterion Collection--she really hates them.) I think these films are generally dull, over-rated, silly, and forgetable movies with a few exceptions. I can't really say I hate them, and I haven't seen every title in the collection--I doub't I've even viewed a third of the collection. Nevertheless, I've seen enough Criterion films to reject Criterion's propaganda that these are "classic and important films." I mean, how does a "movie" like Fishing With John get the "Criterion treatment"?? Has anyone seen this?! I had to fast-forward about a third into it. Then I just started skipping chapters until I ultimately pressed the stop button, ejected the DVD, placed back in the Netflix enveloped and mailed it back. It was unbearable to watch.
Knoxworth
08-12-2007, 12:24 AM
OK, so not really sure how to argue EVERY CRITERION movie. But it goes like this:
The criterion collection chooses movies at their own discretion. Some of them you will love. Some of them you will hate. Likewise, if you only ever watched movies based on your wife's recommendation: some of them you will love, some of them you will hate.
Are you talking about the TV series Fishing With John? Where he and Tom Waits, for instance, go fishing? I would suggest you watch only the episodes of celebrities you enjoy. Its a better alternative than watching celebrities with spiels and canned stories on Letterman or Leno. Tom Waits puts a fish in his pants for instance: http://youtube.com/watch?v=C6Q5KEHkDUs
Instead of renting every criterion movie ever - do research. If you can tell me that Kurosawa movies are dull. That's your call. But that has very little to do with Fishing With John. Criterion is sort of like the oscars. Its an honor many filmmakers would enjoy but has very little to do with the movies themselves. If you only enjoy mainstream movies avoid the oscars & criterion at all costs.
jpeck
08-12-2007, 05:18 AM
Lets also not forget how the Criterion Collection makes many of these classics readily available to people who would never get a chance to see them. Especially with options like netflix.
I will agree that more movie goers will have a hard time watching most Criterion films over modern big screen cr@p. Pacing, thematic elements, acting styles and so many other things have changed. While some may find that hard to swallow, it makes for great experiences for viewers like myself.
For your wife, maybe in 20 years there will be a Meg Ryan movie in the collection for her to enjoy.:violin:
David Jimerson
08-12-2007, 08:20 AM
I have a lot of Criterion movies. For a time, they made the best DVDs of anyone.
I began to question the integrity of their selection process when movies like "Armageddon" began to make the cut. Just a little too much Disney in the pool in recent years not to smell something fishy.
J.R. Hudson
08-12-2007, 10:30 AM
I cannot find that Armegeddon has ever been released on this collection Dave. At the 410 C Releases, either I have'nt seen them or can admit they're not that bad.
One must applaud their variety as far as internationalality goes (Films from other countries)
cinealma
08-12-2007, 10:54 AM
WTF? Are you poo pooing kidding me? :shocked::shocked::shocked:
Ok, having said that...
Cassavetes, Fellini, Kubrick, Scorsese, Godard, Hitchcock, Bergman, Kurosawa, Renoir, Altman, Visconti, Ozu, Wajda, Polanski, Antonioni... etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
Um, uh, um, WTF?
I have a CRAP-load of so-called "CRAP-terion" films, pretty much a filmschool education and THEN SOME.
I guess it comes down to who you are. If you are a "film person", the films in the Criterion Collection are like books in the classic literature pantheon.
And yes, my wife hates most of them, too. She's into romantic comedies and Alias. Anything with subtitles or made before 1977 and they pretty much don't exist.
BTW- John H. - Armageddon IS in the collection. I don't know what they were thinking, either. Deep Impact was a MUCH better movie.:happy: The Rock is the collection as well, for all you Michael Bay fans.
Cheers!
I couldn't agree more. The Criterion collection is crap. Nothing beats brainless blockbusters and teen movies. Fellini? Is that a magician or something?
Give me Lindsey Lohan! Or, better yet, give me the DVD of " The Bratz" movie! That's a DVD worth owning! Godard? Bergman? Kubrik? Who would watch THAT!?
David Jimerson
08-12-2007, 11:50 AM
I cannot find that Armegeddon has ever been released on this collection Dave. At the 410 C Releases, either I have'nt seen them or can admit they're not that bad.
Armageddon (http://www.criterion.com/asp/release.asp?id=40).
It's also no coincidence that every Wes Anderson film released by Touchstone got the Criterion treatment, and in fact his last two aren't released by anyone else.
So, there's some Criterion/Disney coziness going on.
But like I said, I have quite a few Criterion sets. Including the Criterion "Putney Swope." (:))
Billy Pilgrim
08-12-2007, 12:28 PM
The Rock and Robocop also had Criterion discs at some point. Maybe I'm a fool, but I'd like to believe it's a way to continue funding films that do genuinely deserve the criterion treatment. But I am afraid it might not actually be the case. Anyway, I'm obsessed with the Criterion Collection. If it weren't for them, a lot of important or otherwise unnoticed films would continue to go either unnoticed or get poor DVD treatments. In October, Godard's Breathless is finally coming out through Criterion, and I guarantee it'll replace the really terrible DVD I have now (which has a very poor transfer). Stranger Than Paradise is also getting a release, after being out of print in ever format for a while now. There's a lot of films and filmmakers I would probably never see or know about had it not been for Criterion.
Tlalconetl
08-12-2007, 01:50 PM
Everyone who's keen on Criterion seems to bag on Armageddon and Michael Bay. Seems unfair to me. I'd actually like to see more films like his in the Criterion collection and fewer "classics" like Sisters or 3 Women. How about given Transformers the Criterion treatment? Who's with me on this? That's a title that will be worth money some day, especially if they only print 500 copies.
Blaine
08-12-2007, 03:35 PM
Hokey smokes, Bullwinkle. Criterion must really like Michael Bay because they also did The Rock (http://www.amazon.com/Rock-Criterion-Collection-Sean-Connery/dp/B000059TPN/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-0832909-7734260?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1186954473&sr=1-2).
DeSica
08-12-2007, 04:09 PM
. In October, Godard's Breathless is finally coming out through Criterion, and I guarantee it'll replace the really terrible DVD I have now (which has a very poor transfer).
Finally!!! It's about freakin' time. I've been waiting for this title to get a decent release for years, nevermind some sort of Criterion treatment.
As for the OP, Criterion aims most of its' choices at film lovers, not movie goers. Armageddon and the like would probably be their offerings to people in the latter group.
David Jimerson
08-12-2007, 04:28 PM
Hokey smokes, Bullwinkle. Criterion must really like Michael Bay because they also did The Rock (http://www.amazon.com/Rock-Criterion-Collection-Sean-Connery/dp/B000059TPN/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-0832909-7734260?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1186954473&sr=1-2).
Disney.
J.R. Hudson
08-12-2007, 04:39 PM
I didn't see that Dave; thanks
I can see where there are reservations against these films despite my film whore popcorn junkie sentimentality
The Rock and Robocop also had Criterion discs at some point. Maybe I'm a fool, but I'd like to believe it's a way to continue funding films that do genuinely deserve the criterion treatment. But I am afraid it might not actually be the case. Anyway, I'm obsessed with the Criterion Collection. If it weren't for them, a lot of important or otherwise unnoticed films would continue to go either unnoticed or get poor DVD treatments. In October, Godard's Breathless is finally coming out through Criterion, and I guarantee it'll replace the really terrible DVD I have now (which has a very poor transfer). Stranger Than Paradise is also getting a release, after being out of print in ever format for a while now. There's a lot of films and filmmakers I would probably never see or know about had it not been for Criterion.
Actually, I think Robocop is a well deserved "Criterion"movie... Its a clever film disguised in a Blockbuster...
I would, of course, like to see some Hollywood movies getting the Criterion treatment, like Blade Runner, Seven, Forrest Gump, Moulin Rouge..
You know what I really would like to see? Criterion collection in BLU RAY. That, I would collect!
Herman Witkam
08-12-2007, 08:50 PM
Actually, I think Robocop is a well deserved "Criterion"movie... Its a clever film disguised in a Blockbuster...
Agreed! I'm not a fan of the film - I prefer Verhoeven's earlier work, but I like how he cleverly makes use of the blockbuster genre, like he does in Starship Troopers.
Hokey smokes, Bullwinkle. Criterion must really like Michael Bay because they also did The Rock (http://www.amazon.com/Rock-Criterion-Collection-Sean-Connery/dp/B000059TPN/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-0832909-7734260?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1186954473&sr=1-2).
Maybe Mr. Bay bought his Criterion release :D
Herman Witkam
08-12-2007, 08:58 PM
Anyway, I'm obsessed with the Criterion Collection. If it weren't for them, a lot of important or otherwise unnoticed films would continue to go either unnoticed or get poor DVD treatments.
...which is about the same what Master of Cinema does in the UK/Europe (with some titles that are US region compatible too.)
Agreed! I'm not a fan of the film - I prefer Verhoeven's earlier work, but I like how he cleverly makes use of the blockbuster genre, like he does in Starship Troopers.
Maybe Mr. Bay bought his Criterion release :D
I also loved Starship Troopers. Verhoeven has a very unique sense of humour, and he just uses cinematic Clichés in a very clever way.
I also think that his most bashed film, Showgirls, while not a masterpiece, is not as bad as people put it. It has all the trademark Verhoeven Sarcasm, "humour" and "Kitch".
Loved "The Black Book".
Would love to see some Wong Kar Wai Critterion FIlms.
And CIty of God should have a Critterion version, too.
Also Lars Von Trier... I would like to revisit his "Kingdom" and also "Breaking The Waves", Critterion style...
Blaine
08-12-2007, 10:04 PM
I also think that his most bashed film, Showgirls, while not a masterpiece, is not as bad as people put it.
"You can't be serious"
http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/inc/2000/0705/photo/c_mcenroe2.jpg
"You can't be serious"
http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/inc/2000/0705/photo/c_mcenroe2.jpg
Actually, I am :). And I believe I'm making a good call. Go back to your corner, mister Mcenroe. :)
AloysiusK
08-12-2007, 10:44 PM
"Everyone who's keen on Criterion seems to bag on Armageddon and Michael Bay. Seems unfair to me. I'd actually like to see more films like his in the Criterion collection and fewer "classics" like Sisters or 3 Women. How about given Transformers the Criterion treatment? Who's with me on this? That's a title that will be worth money some day, especially if they only print 500 copies."
As many have said earlier, the charm of the criterion collection is bringing forgotten films into the public eye so that they can be given the chance to be appreciated. It's not about lionizing films that are marketed to the teeth. You are missing the entire point.
As far as making a huge popcorn movie part of the collection to create Collectors status...I can only assume that you are joking.
When I don't have the energy to go to Movie Madness in Portland, which has an incredible selection, I walk down the street to Hollywood Video, which I kinda loathe most of the time. Thank goodness for the criterion collection. It definitely sneaks smaller films into the abyss of copies of poopy new releases, and the like. Do we really need two walls full of the movie, "Lonely Hearts"?
David Jimerson
08-13-2007, 03:59 AM
Maybe Mr. Bay bought his Criterion release :D
I'm pretty sure I've been saying throughout this thread that I think Disney has a deal with Criterion.
krestofre
08-13-2007, 06:47 AM
I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but there seems to be a Disney / Criterion connection.
Couldn't resist. :)
Anyway I've been a fan of the collection since back in the Laserdisc days. There's a hugh catalog of Criterions that hit LD that will never be transferee to DVD because the studios opted for their own release instead of letting Criterion do it. Blade Runner, Citizen Kane, the theatrical cut of Close Rncounters, just to name a few.
I think they give films wonderful treatments and I appreciate the work that they do. My only complaint is if I come across a Criterion film I've never heard of I'm compelled to buy it because that little symbol means I have to see it, right? That's worked out for me before, and burned me before. Which brings me to my last point: Criterions have excellent resale value.:thumbsup:
Tlalconetl
08-13-2007, 11:03 AM
I actually own three Criterion films--Rushmore, Straw Dogs, and Seven Samurai. All great films though the transfer on Seven Samurai is rather crappy. My next Criterion purchase may be Man Bites Dog. Would love to get my hands on Hard Boiled too.
Jazz Dog
08-13-2007, 12:44 PM
Criterion version of Down by Law is amazing. I mean phone conversations with Jim and the stars years later about the film, old never released Tom Waits video, etc. If you are a fan of something the criterion versions are must haves. The more content they put in there the better for me. Fishing with John is an aquired taste and is not a film. I happen to love it. Classic dry sarcasm voice over that I will never get tired of....
Fidelio
08-14-2007, 03:39 AM
They released Kubrick on Criterion? Which one?
Billy Pilgrim
08-14-2007, 03:51 AM
Spartacus (http://criterion.com/asp/release.asp?id=105)
deedive
08-14-2007, 04:37 AM
From what I heard, criterion wanted Rushmore. They said "no" not unless u do Armageddon and the Rock" criterion reluctantly said "uuuhhh, I guess so, what can we do"
Armageddon and the Rock weren’t really supposed to be criterions.
If you don’t like crapterion go to blockbuster and get whatever crap u like.
I have about 80, so more for me:). %100 of them I would buy if they where criterion or not. Bought them for the movie itself. I have about 20 more films that I bought before there where criterion versions available (Wish i had the criterion version) The criterion transfers are great.
Another reason I love criterion is because allot of the time they release the film back into the theater right before a DVD release. Since im not old enough to have seen "Hard Boiled" or "Army of Shadow" or "In the Mood for Love" when they where release it is a real treat. (Especially since Army of shadows was band in the US)
David Jimerson
08-14-2007, 07:50 AM
From what I heard, criterion wanted Rushmore. They said "no" not unless u do Armageddon and the Rock" criterion reluctantly said "uuuhhh, I guess so, what can we do"
Armageddon and the Rock weren’t really supposed to be criterions.
If I were Criterion, I think I'd recognize that "Rushmore," while a film worthy of the collection, isn't worth compromising the integrity of the collection over.
Capt Quirk
08-14-2007, 08:35 AM
I have several videos from this collection. But, like anything else, you have to look before you buy. There are some golden flicks, as well as some real stinkers. So my advice is, buy the movie not the collection.
deedive
08-14-2007, 08:48 AM
buy the movie not the collection.
exactly!:)
Chris Messineo
08-14-2007, 09:10 AM
I love the majority of the criterion discs and I own a bunch of them.
I just wish they weren't always so poo pooing expensive.
jpeck
08-14-2007, 05:39 PM
I just wish they weren't always so poo pooing expensive.
Try living in Canada, even with our strong dollar we are still paying an insane premium... :cry:
That is why I order most of mine off of eBay.
Herman Witkam
08-14-2007, 08:40 PM
I'm pretty sure I've been saying throughout this thread that I think Disney has a deal with Criterion.
I don't get the Michael Bay + Disney reference, but that's probably just me. I'm a big fan of neither's recent work :)
Herman Witkam
08-14-2007, 08:43 PM
The criterion transfers are great.
I think there was a time when that wasn't the case :)
Herman Witkam
08-14-2007, 08:46 PM
Criterion version of Down by Law is amazing. I mean phone conversations with Jim and the stars years later about the film, old never released Tom Waits video, etc.
The standard rental version in The Netherlands even had those phone conversions on it. The main thing I like about Criterion is stuff like a written Kurosawa essay on Tarkovsky (and 9 deleted scenes on Solyaris etc...)
DeSica
08-14-2007, 08:51 PM
I love the majority of the criterion discs and I own a bunch of them.
I just wish they weren't always so poo pooing expensive.
I know...Rushmore set me back almost 80 bucks, if I recall, with tax and everything. That was a few years ago, and in Canadian dollars.
Herman Witkam
08-14-2007, 08:55 PM
I know...Rushmore set me back almost 80 bucks, if I recall, with tax and everything. That was a few years ago, and in Canadian dollars.
Interesting nickname - I just saw Umberto D yesterday :) (I loved it)
DeSica
08-15-2007, 02:31 AM
Interesting nickname - I just saw Umberto D yesterday :) (I loved it)
I know. Brilliant.
Without De Sica, would we have had the French New Wave, Cassavetes, or Dogme 95?
It pains me to think that if he didn't move behind the camera, Truffaut may never have put down his pen and picked up a camera. No Quatre Cent Coups? No thanks.
Criterion has a bunch of the little frenchman's stuff available. I dool every time I pass by his little section at the video store.
Knoxworth
08-15-2007, 04:49 AM
What's awesome is that audio visual libraries will just buy Criterion movies no matter what. So as a college kid I had access to all these great movies not knowing a damn thing about em' when I grabbed it from the librarian.
rsbush
08-15-2007, 06:07 AM
What's awesome is that audio visual libraries will just buy Criterion movies no matter what. So as a college kid I had access to all these great movies not knowing a damn thing about em' when I grabbed it from the librarian.
Yeah, my little public library branch has one of the best DVD collections I've seen.
deedive
08-16-2007, 07:08 AM
I think there was a time when that wasn't the case :)
I havent seen a bad transfer yet. I exclude the movies where it is hard to get a film print intact at all. But they do a pretty good job at restoring hard to find/ half destroyed films. Every film that i have seen both non-criterion and criterion version; the criterion was better or equal. Alot of the time it seem like a studio will let criterion do and movie so they dont have to do the transfer. So when they take the rights back they have a good tranfer also.
Are u talking about back in the lazerdisc times?
(the criterion version of AKIRA is Great!)
Now fox lorber is another story...