New To Community

[tokyboy]

I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section. I have been a user for some months but have never posted because I was trying to learn as much as I could from searching threads. Im totally new to shooting, I have never owned a video camera, but I always loved commercials and have many different scripts that I have come up with. I finally have enough money to purchase an HVX, but I am overwhelmed by the information, lenses, tripods, heads, filters and so on. I want to start shooting some commercials for local businesses (small city), as well as some comedy skits for a website,but I want to learn about that information before I do. Can someone point me in the right direction to learning about shooting and hardware associated with the hvx, ex best to buy. Also any websites, any books, or some links to some threads would also be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

[Jason Ramsey]

Welcome to the forum....

You have pointed yourself to a great starting point. Just keep using that search feature. Search around on google.

There is a 'links' section as well that you may find quite useful...

Concerning your questions, they are pretty broad and general, so it's hard to answer anything in specifics.

A lot of it will come down to your own personal preference and what is best for your needs. What you intend to do with the equipment.

For a tripod, you need to look for at least a decent fluid head... A Bogen/Manfrotto in the 500'ish range would be about the cheapest you might want to look.... but most will spend considerably more on their tripods.

Lenses.... The HVX's lens isn't interchangeable... There are 35mm lense adapters that you can purchase, but I wouldn't even begin to worry about that right now if I were you.

For editing... Pick whatever NLE you like the best. EDIUS has the best P2/HVX support. AVID supports almost everything HVX/P2. Final Cut (Mac) supports all formats of the camera by first converting it over to a .mov file. Vegas and Premiere have support for the HVX, only with a 3rd party program like DVFilm's Raylight (which will allow you to drop the mxf files from your p2 card straight onto the timeline, like in EDIUS for example. Also works with Final Cut now too). Cineform is another company that makes a product thatwill allow you to work with the footage in Premiere and Vegas. And, Newtek now also has SpeedEDIT that has native support for P2.

DVCPRO HD isn't too demanding on your computer when comparing it to other HD formats. A decent dual core processor with a couple of gigs of ram and a lot of HDD storage will get you started just fine (depending on your NLE solution, and what you intend to do with the footage beyond standard editing... )

Filters... A good clear filter to protect your lens when you need to... Hoya... B+W are a couple of good ones.

And, so on...

Just keep searchin' man :) As you start to dig deeper, and get a better understanding of what you are getting yourself into, you will find more specific things, and your searches will improve as a result. Then, when you have a specific question about a specific piece of hardware, for example... find an existing thread and post your question there... Or, if you can't find an existing one, feel free to start a new one.

Sorry, man... Broad answers for broad questions...

Welcome to Jarred's House. Enjoy it. It's a great community here.

Jason

[tokyboy]

Im sorry for the broad questions, I guess one question I would like answered would be what would you suggest I buy first in terms of equipment? I know a tripod is a must, plus batteries and p2 card. I appreciate your time and long reply, it is kind of intimidating to go in to something I know almost nothing about.

[Jason Ramsey]

Camera, batteries, tripod, microphones, computer, editing software, P2/Tape/Firestore....

That's a good start....

[tokyboy]

Thank you very much.

[valladao65]

Are you sure that shooting is what you want to do. From your first posting it sounds more like you're doing the producer's work. You could always find people to do the shooting and editing for you, unless that is what you really want to do.
The investment is substantial and jumping right into a camera this level is a big step.
Good luck and I hope you find exactly what you you're looking for.

[VenezuelanD]

I would recommend you don't buy an HVX at this point.

Rent first. Go to a local rental house and talk to them, explain to them your situation, then start getting paid work and rent the equipment. You will very quickly learn what works and what doesn't work for you.

Once you start having a steady revenue stream and have been using the HVX for a while, you can then see if the HVX is right for you, or if perhaps you need to go with a different camera for your needs.

The XLA1 or the Z1U(V1U now?), or the JVC HD110 are all great cameras around the same price range as the HVX, and the DVX100a/b, XL1-2, and PD170s also great SD cameras that still get alot of professional use.

The fastest, most effective way to learn this equipment, is to have it in front of us and to use it in real life situations. The least expensive way to do this is by renting the equipment. Once you've been renting the HVX for a few shoots you should be able to easily answer all the questions you have asked more accurately than any of us could.

[wgzn]

i have to agree with daniel. if you dont have experience shooting - it would be HIGHLY advisable to rent it for a few weekends first. an HVX generally rents for around $200 a day. rent it on a friday and most shops only charge you the single day price for the full weekend.

being a shooter is way more than just having good gear - what if you discover that you're not any good at it and you find yourself $9000 into gear that you cant really use???

[wgzn]

and forget batteries, tripods, additional p2 cards, etc... none of that does you any good unless you have a something to offload the p2 content to.

what computer do you have? do you have budget for software (give or take a grand)? external hard drive (two hundred ish)

there is a lot to consider...

[someday]

It could seem simplicistic, but i suggest you to buy the following setup.
Commpercials and fiction are totally different beasts than news and docs.

The HVX200 is IMO the best choiche for your needs.
You need a P2 card, absolutely, because you will never shoot in DV, and having all your data in a hard disk is too risky.

You could need a 35mm adapter, which will make the difference between news and commercials, and between amateur movies and pro movies.

So here my list for you:

1)HVX200
2) 16GB P2 (the more you can get, the better)
3) 35mm adapter (i suggest the Letus35FE but you can find others)
4) A professional tripod with fluid head, usually nothing under 500$
5) Lights Lights Lighs: for low budget and portability i recommend umbrellas and DIY light panels, then you will need some reflectors. Every light, panel and reflector will have a stand. You can't ask the client to hold the umbrella, nor the assistent.
6) a Slider or a Dolly. The dolly needs time to be set up, instead a slider will be part of your tripod and allow some dollying.
7) Final Cut Pro on a MacBookPro or tower. This is the most powerful and reliable option for the money.
8) Sennheiser lavalier mics

Just 2cts

[tokyboy]

Thank you all for your input. I considered renting it so that I could try it out, but I don't know of any places that rent it here in my area. I live in South Texas, like waaaay south, and the closest place I could probably rent one is four hours away. My friend has a G5 with fcp (don't know which edition) but we have a deal with our university that lets us buy software for more than 50 percent off, sometimes. I have a sony vaio laptop, core duo with 1.6 ghz, 1 gig of ram and 100 gig hard drive along with 3 100 gig external hd's. Would that be sufficient to unload the p2 cards? I didn't really want to do any jobs right now for money, since I wanted to learn on it first for about 6-8 months since I'm still in school, and really, if I don't use the money, I'll end up spending it on stupid stuff and then not have enough money to buy the camcorder when I need it. Oh, one more thing, which tripod do you suggest around 800 dollar range? Thank you all for your time.

[Jason Ramsey]

Its' your money... You spend it on what you want to... Don't let folks tell you how to spend your own money...

Just make sure you spend it wisely :)

Concerning your laptop, that is more than sufficient to offload p2 cards... That particular laptop does have a pcmcia slot doesn't it? In fact, with EDIUS (for example) you could probably edit a couple of streams of DVCPRO HD in realtime with that laptop....

Later,
Jason

[VenezuelanD]

For a tripod i'd go with the:

Libec H38 head
(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/458997-REG/Libec_LS38M2A_LS_38M_2A_Professional_Tripod_System .html)
if you can afford alittle bit more i'd go with the 516 head (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/353224-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto__515MVB_Tripod_Legs_Black_.html) from manfrotto with the 515MVB legs. Its more expensive, but it gives you 100mm Legs which can be used with most higher end heads if you decide to upgrade in the future.

You can use the cheaper LS22 head from libec on an HVX (and I have) or the 503/501 bogen heads, but always go for the most expensive tripod you can afford...then go one step up from there. Tripods don't go obsolete.

[wgzn]

how far south are you? there are two places that rent hvx's here in houston. and a number of the bigger rent houses in LA, NY, CHI, etc... will fed ex rented cameras to you.

i wouldnt keep harping on the rental idea, but for someone with ZERO shooting experience, the HVX and all the related [required] accessories gets pretty spendy pretty quickly. its pretty easy to find yourself up to $8000 - $9000 (or easily more) worth of gear before you know it. and unless you are able to start making money with it reasonably soon - buying right away, may not be the best idea

[Daniel J]

I agree with valladao65 about thinking through your purchase. Do you have any photography experience? Do you have any experience running sound? There is a lot to learn in video about these different fields. I would start watching 10 of these a day just to soak yourself even more into video before you buy:

http://www.digitaljuice.com/djtv/default.asp

I would be putting alot of thought into your audio and lighting equipment as well. You could always hire professional audio and lighting peoples for your shoots until you get a good grasp on everything that happens in a production. Have fun.

[Daniel J]

Oh, and podcasts are nice too. I listen to the digital production buzz and the dv show which can both be found on itunes.

[Noel Evans]

Im totally new to shooting,

Thats the most important part of your post IMO. Forget the HVX with the p2 workflow that will only serve to add another (albeit small) learning curve to the process your undertaking and a bunch of $$$$$$.

Forget 35mm adapters AND FORGET RENTING. Why blow your hard earned $$. What you need is experience. Shooting anything, working with whatever material you have. Shoot anything and practice editing. Do it enough and you will start to understand what works and what doesnt when your shooting. Write a commercial and shoot in your backyard with your friends and cut it.

Get yourself a used DVX100A, get Barry Greens book and DVD, you can grab them cheap (I would never buy sight unseen - check that lens and operation - look for any noise in the zoom , focus or other thats putting out much noise at all, check for externl scaring - if so move to the next one. Anything 500 hours or under is fine), its a great camera that can help you learn so many things. The preamps are great on this cam, so getting reasonable audio is possible with some good mic options and getting them in tight to your actor or whatever (see audio forum).

Make up scenarios, client A wants me to cover the march of the ants from my front yard to back, what shots can I take to make that useful. I'm NOT kidding. How can that be cut to be interesting. If you can make that work so people sit and watch it with interest then your getting somewhere.

My point is dont get sucked into the buying spree. Start with above and if you your doing quality stuff people will notice, then when your seeing a return then think about how to maximise that - maybe thats a HD camera above the HVX, like the HPX or even a red. But hey thats just my opinion and I dont mean to sway you from whatever it is you really want to do.

[Arrik]

In my very humble opinion, I don't see a problem with purchasing the camera in your position. If you rent to learn, you will be throwing your money away. You will gain some knowledge but the limited exposure to the unit (depending on the duration of your rental) will probably not be sufficient time to really learn how to use this versatile camera.

I bought my HVX without using it before. I only had shooting experience with an XL-2 and before that an optura. I've learned to use the HVX (also due to a great forum such as this) and after months of use, and I'm still learning. If I sold it right now, the loss I would take would be minimal. Check out ebay, see how many HVX200 owners are selling their units. Check the marketplace on this forum. You won't find many.... and the ones you do find, move quickly. Yes, you would be sinking alot of money into a camera, but the camera remains high in value.

I think having an indefinite time to spend with the camera allows you to learn the most, affords you the option to sell, and lets you do this at less of a loss than renting. Obviously, selling it after a year of use will take its toll on the resale price, but when compared to say $800 for a week rental.... you could sell a year old hvx200 with almost that same loss. I sold my XL-2 at $300 loss, mind you for months of use.

So, if you have already saved up the dough and wanna do it, I say go for it! But that's just me, and I'm small potatoes.

[bosindy]

I would buy and learn, you can always sell 85 to 90 cents on the dollar down the road. Stay awat from the 35MM adapters until you are more advanced. Shoot on p2 bc thats what God wants. get something that can edit dvcpro hd and then post the first video of your cats. Finding this place was half the battle.

[tokyboy]

Thank you everyone for your input. I really appreciate both sides, but I decided that I'm going to go ahead and purchase the camera. I have enough for the hvx and the 16gig p2 card. I'll just take a week off from school so I can go ahead and make enough to buy the tripod and some lights, maybe some mics. Oh, and I live like 5 hours south of Houston. What is better for you all in terms of editing, mac or pc, or do they both have similar outcomes? Another thing, what kind of discount does abelcinetech have for dvxusers, and do I qualify?

[packguardian]

Just a word about P2 cards. I ordered one from B&H back in June and still haven't received it (but it was just shipped, so that's a two-month wait). It's been the same story across the country. This may change as Panasonic plays catch-up with supply/demand, but meanwhile I bought a Firestore FS-100 and used it on a trip to Hearst Castle and Big Sur and it worked great. If you can afford multiple P2 cards, go for it. My plan is to use one FS-100 and one 16GB P2 for a while to have the flexibility of both options (and add more P2 cards later when prices go down and availability goes up).

[Jason Ramsey]

Sure, the outcomes can be similar...

Really, it all comes down to choosing the NLE that you like the best. It mostly comes down to personal preference. However, concerning which NLE natively has the best and most thorough support for P2. Just trying out the 4.5 update (released today) and it's great too. Speaking only in terms of taking the fullest advantage of the P2 workflow, a PCMCIA slot and EDIUS Broadcast is it.... Beyond that, all NLE's either natively, or with the help of 3rd party programs like Raylight, support p2. So, just pick what's most important to you in a feature set, etc. for your NLE and get the one that suits you best... Download some trial versions and pick the one you like.

Yes, several companies will offer dvxuser discounts. Just call them up and ask 'em about it. They'll tell you.

Jason

[Simon Höfer]

You seem to be in a similar situation like me. Money is not so important for us. When I see an opportunity, I can live like a monk just to achive what I want. If I loose money, I dont care. Its just money, but I cant get the lost time back.

Just buy that beast, like I did. Keep on reading on this board and on many other places. You are still young, so the learning curve will go up very fast.

If it is not working out, you can always sell it, as said above. Or just keep it for fun. I think it is much better than spending your money on stupid stuff as you mentioned. With the money my brother put in cigarettes, I could buy 2 HVXs with a lot equipment :D

[packguardian]

...Oh, just one one thing about purchasing your HVX200: make sure that you are purchasing one that cleared US Customs! Some online stores will sell you brand new product, but when you go to register it for the 1-year factory warranty, Panasonic will say "Sorry, but that's a gray market camera. No factory warranty available". Ouch!

Note: I should know because that's what happened with my camera. I filed a fraud dispute with Mastercard and reported the matter to US Customs who told me to hold onto the camera pending investigation. Mastercard credited my account for the purchase price. So until US Customs gets around to my little problem, I guess it's a free camera. How weird is that?

[tokyboy]

With no PCMCIA slot on my laptop, I would probably need the dual adapaters system, correct?

[Curnsie]

While those who say 'rent' have very valid points, there's nothing like owning the camera and just filming stuff at a moments notice - its the best way to learn. Making mistakes is part of the learning process, something you can't afford to do when you rent if it means a re-shoot.

Get the HVX and use it - learn how to shot HD. U will not regret it.

C

[Arrik]

Correct, for use with your express card slot. Or you can ingest via firewire, but you won't benefit from the hot swap/continuous shooting of the the p2 workflow.... But if you only have one card, then it wouldn't matter so much.