High-Res Monitoring Solution: Low Cost Semi-DIY project

[Kholi]

DOUBLE POSTED IN HVX200 HARDWARE SECTION SO THAT THOSE WHO NEED HIGHER RES CAN FIND IT (XHA1 is example). MODS, DELETE IF THIS IS A PROBLEM! SORRY!.

UPDATE: July 20, 2007 -- Yup, it worked! And worked well!

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1004277&postcount=46 -- See the Mini Lilliput Review there.

Xenarc Touchscreen test-run -- Not bad, the Lilliput is better: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1007758&postcount=117

Coming soon-- Dynamix 8" TFT LCD test run--

Okay. Let me start off by saying that I'm not the only one that is doing, is trying, has tried, has done this. I went hunting a few nights back because with the M2, I definitely NEED a solution to monitor my footage when I can't have the Gateway 24". I found out that someone else had success with this method, and then later found another one:

DVinfo thread I ran across:
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=87334

Dennis Wood's Comprison:
http://www.cinevate.com/phpBB2/viewt...439a41 2f0ddd (http://www.cinevate.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=246&sid=933588d56ddda2ad2d55439a412f0ddd)


Check Dennis Wood's Comparison for actual pictures comparing the Marshall to what I'm in the process of doing.

I have a strong feeling that another member on DVXuser has done this as well, but I've seen no mention of it.

Concept: Cobble together a few parts to make a worthy "hi-def" monitor. Something on par with the iKan.

Goal: To bring the cost of the complete working LCD down below 550.00 USD including shipping charges. This is without an arm or a case to lug it around in. But includes Batteries, converter, screen, and a solution to strap them together.

Results: To be posted here probably around this weekend, cause I've ordered the parts. Nose dive!

------------------------------------- The Parts List

-LCD-

Well you'll need one of these! And the most important things to look for in a screen are:

A) 800 x 480 resolution: The Marshall, the iKan, the ToteVision? THey all have the same resolution. After a good twenty hours of research, I learned that there are only like two to three possible LCD's that they're using. A Hitachi LCD or a Samsung are the most likely ones. So, the actual LCD won't really matter here. As long as you're hunting for an 800 x 480 resolution 16:9 (not 15:9) TFT LCD you're good.

B) Viewing Angle: These are listed in monitor specs. Mostly 65's are good, that's the important thing to note. The viewing angle marked U is usually lower from what I've seen.

C) VGA connection: Not S-Video, not RCA/Composite, but 15-Pin D-Sub VGA. This is important, because this connection will allow you the best resolution possible.

Through my research, I've managed to gather for you all screen manufacturers and some specific model numbers that should be exactly what's needed. :

Bests (in order I believe)

LILLIPUT - 619GL-70NP -- Tight. Zak has two, Lucas bought one, I'm going for the 629GL. This one is prolly the winner!
XENARC Model #: 700Y / 700YV -- Update: I tried this one and it had a bit of a problem: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1008378&postcount=130
Dynamix 8" TouchScreen LCD (Ebay: DYNAMIX)
PYLE PLVG-7IR

Not sures:
iMobile (Can't find these anywhere)
http://www.xovision.com/stand_monitors.htm (http://www.xovision.com/stand_monitors.htm)
http://www.digitax.com/prod_detail.p...08920f0f569972 (http://www.digitax.com/prod_detail.php?ID=233&PHPSESSID=dc01c04c0174f81fd608920f0f569972)
http://telepeak.manufacturer.globals...149681/ALL.htm (http://telepeak.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008812530080/Showroom/3000000149681/ALL.htm)
http://www.provisiontvusa.com/products.htm
Hami - http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=Hami&categ ory0= (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=Hami&category0=)
Eonon - http://eonon.com/D275.htm
More Generic Ebay Seller - http://myworld.ebay.com/ebaymotors/tammy2918/ (http://myworld.ebay.com/ebaymotors/tammy2918/)
Metrik TFT LCD
Nitro TFT LCD

I ended up purchasing the LILLIPUT model 16:9 800 x 480 resolution LCD on Ebay. The manufacturer SAYS 15:9. I called the guy selling them and he says they are definitely 16:9 so we'll see.

I think you might want to stay away from ACCELE LCD's as well. I think MP3Car.com forum members rated this one a no no.

-SIGNAL CONVERTER-

This is important. You need one that can convert the HVX's signal to the RGB/VGA in port. Again, I found some through my research and here they are in order of readily available:

NEOYA X2VGA 2 - 70.00 Shipped
MAYFLASH - About 60.00 Shipped when in-stock at SewellDirect
vDIGI - About 60.00 Shipped I think -- UPDATE: Zak Forsman tried this with the Lilliput 619GL and it DID NOT WORK PROPERLY! -- http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1008373&postcount=129

All of these need external power to function right, which I am about to get to now.

-BATTERIES-

Gotta power the screen and the converter, right? A good 12v package should work for the screen with a 6v (can't remember, will clarify this soon) solution for the converter. I took the liberty of hunting down something that would work for all and came up with

TEKKEON MP series batteries. Mp3300, Mp3400, Mp3450. You can change the voltages and they come with a host of goodies and leather cases which will be good for mounting the batteries. Read up on them here: http://www.tekkeon.com/site/products-mypowerall.php

I purchased from an Ebay Vendor here in California who sells the Mp3300 for a mere 50.00 a pop! I think that's very nice for a sleek looking battery that you can change the output voltages on, nay?

-CABLES-

www.Monoprice.com (http://www.monoprice.com/) (Thanks to Cynic821) Stocks 3ft VGA cables. It's the shortest length I could find. They also have VGA signal splitters as well as RGB signal splitters. I purchased one of each so maybe I can concoct something shorter for the screen.

-EXTRAS-

Velcro's our friend. I figured I'd get double sided Velcro tape and tape up the back of the monitor to attach the extra Converter. I already have the Veclro, will let you know how that works out.

-----------------------Costs

You should look for the best outlets possible to keep your costs down. Ebay was my friend. I ended up paying:

205.00 Shipped for the Lillput Monitor
70.00 Shipped for the Mayflash converter
150.00 for 3 x Mp3300 Brand new Rechargable Li-Ion batteries
----- 425 Total for the real hardware.

Extras like cables and such shouldn't come to more than 25.00 if you shop right.

So that brings me to about 450.00 for something that I am hoping will at least be on Par with the iKan monitoring solution just released.

If shopped right (And if the Lilliput works well) you could get this same setup from 400-500.00


CONS

I'm sure this is going to be heavier than the iKan by a few grams
An extra cable or two added to your setup
No arm included in the price of this. Though, which monitor comes with an arm.
Hackneyed, but I doubt anyone will really notice aside from us.


I have all of the parts I need to try this, simply waiting for them to arrive and I think everything will get here by Thursday/Friday so here's to hoping it works out!

Input is welcomed and encouraged!

Matty G and I will probably meet up later next week in LA and compare screens. Not expecting this to be as good as his Marshall, but a great trade off for price.

[Lucas Adamson]

Wow Kholi, what timing!

I broke my screen data cable like a twat yesterday, and now I'm scanning the forum for a solution, and this may be it. I have a DVX100b, however, so I'm not sure if my needs are different. Where do external monitors plug into a DVX? Is it the yellow RCA socket or S-video? Will I need a converter, like the HVX? I'd like to be able to use DVX/HVX batteries ideally - that would be the slickest solution I think. If they plugged in on the back of the monitor, that would be even cooler. I will research now!

Many thanks
Lucas

[siniarch]

hey Kohli,

I have done such a monitor. to tell you the truth, It worked for what it was, but the problems are too much to be a viable solution for a work environment.

I just blew my second NEOYA X2VGA 2 converter with the tekkeon MP3400. I swore I'd never blow my second one after the first one, but when working on a tight deadline, you can't always help it. So my thing is caput. and for some reason I hadn't use it in a while and it wasn't working initally when I tried it. So if its not dependable, then its no good.

I'm meeting with Matty G tomorrow and thursday, maybe even friday, so if you are in LA and want to take a look at mine, I'd be happy to show you it.

The draw backs are the cheap car monitors, their angle of view is too small, so no good for a focus puller. only for the camera operator.

Second draw back is the NEOYA X2VGA 2. its not the best scaler, but it does a decent job.

Third, you will need to feed two components, the monitor, and the NEOYA X2VGA 2. so two batteries. I myself, got 2 Tekkeon MP3400. ( I like the damn things, but if you are still going this route, maybe color coating which one is set to what voltage will help. the NEOYA X2VGA 2 only takes 5 volts, the monitor will probably take 12. so if you mix them you will blow your neoya and another $70, plus 2 weeks for the new one to ship)

[Lucas Adamson]

It sounds as though the problem here is with those batteries and the ability to fry components with them. Surely a dedicated-voltage battery would be a good solution to make the system reliable.

Question: What is a good camera mount solution?

[siniarch]

well, not just that. My first Neoya worked fine with both 720p and 1080i. my second one didn't seem to work with the 1080i, which was ok with me since I usually shoot 720. Maybe I did something wrong when I was soldering everything the second time.

And the other thing is that you need 2 batteries. this one really sucks.

And then the car screens are really crappy.

[Kholi]

well, not just that. My first Neoya worked fine with both 720p and 1080i. my second one didn't seem to work with the 1080i, which was ok with me since I usually shoot 720. Maybe I did something wrong when I was soldering everything the second time.

And the other thing is that you need 2 batteries. this one really sucks.

And then the car screens are really crappy.

Did you know that the LCD's in the car screens are the same as the iKan and Marshall? I'm willing to bet if you tear one or the other apart, they're the Hitachi LCDs. It's the internal processing that'll make the difference and I got a feeling your Accele monitor was the weakest link in your setup. Xenarc, Dynamix, and Lilliput are rated the highest from my few days of research. So, just like in every electronics market, there'll be different grades of quality between brands.

On viewing angle, the monitors that I have listed have the same Viewing Angle Rating as the iKan and Marshall monitors. I'm not exactly sure about the Accelle, though. One of those has a better viewing angle than both. It's at 80 on all sides. I think that's the Dynamix or the Provision.


I've also considered having to power two components, and lucky for me I found a cheap source for MP3300's. I ended up getting 3 instead of two. One to charge while the other two work and switch them out. Also, the MP3300's can drop down to 3v instead of the MP3400's 6v which I find very useful. I'll gaff off each one accordingly, no doubt. Batteries will be a nuisance for any monitor setup. This shouldn't be a worry of anyone's honestly.

Also, instead of the Neoya (because it's larger) I ended up getting a MAYFLASH instead. It's smaller and along side the vDigi, gamers rated it just as high in scaling and image processing. Neoya is the one that sorta lags behind, but, it's more available than the Mayflash and vDigi at this time. I got my Mayflash on Ebay brand new.

I, in fact, knew you were one of the DVXuser members that did this as I saw your X2VGA 2 strapped to the monitor. =P You should've told the rest of us so we could try it out too.



Lucas: You won't need a converter. In fact, you have it easy-- you can just plug in S-Video for highest quality out of DVX and go. No need for a converter. You'll just need an MP3300 battery to run it.

[Luis Caffesse]

Kholi - thanks for posting the breakdown all in one place in such an organized way.
Can't wait to hear your results.
:thumbsup:

[Kholi]

No problem, Luis. I know the screen will be here today. I got the cables from Monoprice, lightning fast shipping! Now I wait on the Tekkeon batteries and the Mayflash which means I should have it all by Saturday and SUNDAY I have a shoot from 12 - 7:30 or so... which means I can test it out while shooting.

Again, I don't expect this to perform on par with the Marshall. At best, on par with the iKan at a healthy trade-off for price-to-quality.

I'm not about to spend 1500.00 on an 8" LCD that only does 480p. I spent the same on a 42" TV that does 1080p.

Me cheap.

[William_Robinette]

Yes, thank you. Cannot wait for your results.

[Kholi]

To make benefit the nation of DVXuser, I'm going to try to test out another LCD: 8" 800 x 480p with a similar contrast ratio to that of the Marshall and all around similar specs.

So, if that works out, I'll be testing two and reporting on the differences along-side the Marshall if I can get Matty G to help out.

Anyone in Los Angeles got an iKan?

[Kholi]

Recieved the Lilliput 619GL in BLACK instead of SILVER. Very solid IMO and the viewing angle is as described. I can nearly view it from completely sideways on both sides, and a decent viewing angle from the bottom.

Viewing from the top is the worst, but I can't imagine needing to look straight down from the top of the screen regardless.

Also plugged it into the Mac and ran 800 x 600 and it's great. Also, it accepts all resolutions which is good.

Has a lot of typical adjustment options, like RGB values, contrast AND backlight which is great.

Those are my initial thoughts. I think this Lilliput could very well be a winner.

Got the 3 MP3300 Batteries in today as well. THey're a LOT larger than I expected. LOL. I thought they were gonna be small but I'll make 'em work.

[USLatin]

interesting... keep fiddling, I know Siniarch has been researching and developing for some time now too so he must have a ton of experience to share... I know tween the two of you you can pull this one off... but what's the latest on Siniarch's monitor? it's been a while since I asked him...

I would love to see a $600 something x 480 monitor even if it isn't the best viewing angle as long as the sucker is as bright as the HVX's LCD or brighter... then I know I can work with it somewhat even in the hot Vegas sun with 110F (just did that with the built in and my awesome Petrol shade)...


hummmm... this could be good.... Kholi, keep us informed... I really wnat to see what you come up with....

[Aaron Marshall]

Thanks Kholi. This is very interesting and informative.

BTW, why in the heck aren't you a mod? I think you're total mod material.

[siniarch]

Well, I got all the components in this week, and I got to tell ya, the monitor is sweet.
1024x768, and it should be brighter than the marshal if my calculations are correct.
I hope Matty_G brings his marshall so we can compare them tomorrow.

It has :

a flip function
1024x768
take HD RGB analog
HDSDI with pass thru option of 1 or 2 inputs
VGA
S-video
Coaxial SDvideo
SD RGB analog
8.4" screen
500:1 contrast
85 viewing angle all around
Antiglare Polarizing surface
16,777,216 colors.
has monochrome function for Red / Green / and Blue (but I still haven't tried calibrating with the blue only setting)
Has the ability to zoom (though not 1:1 probably, but it does zoom a little)I'm looking at it being cheaper than the marshall, but not by much. I believe its a better monitor though.
I'll let you know once I have more info on this.

[Kholi]

Thanks Latin! You know I'm all about trying stuff out. The viewing angle of the first four monitors I put up are the same as the iKan and if not the same as the Marshall, very close. Just as well, while you mention the HOT VEGAS SUN... the monitors are rated up to 78c. So you CAN work out in the hot Vegas sun without an issue. Get a Hoodman though. lol. Go down further to see what the Lilliput offers as far as BACKLIGHT controls.

Aaron, I so couldn't handle being a mod. LoL. And I don't think the Mods actually think I'm mod material anyway. =P. But, that makes my tinkering feel appreciated so thanks man.

Siniarch-- What LCDs are you planning to put into your setups? Would the screen resolution be native 800 x 600 able to accept a 1024 x 768? I know the Hitachi screens and newer Samsung LCD's are capable of that. Although I think the newer Samsungs are capable of also accepting a 1600 x 1200 signal as well.

Your specs also have a higher contrast than the Marshall, will they include a setting to change the backlight amount as well as a higher brightness rating to begin with?


--- Small update on Lilliput Monitor ----

It's pretty darned nice running from a Macbook @ 1024 x 768. I got a chance to calibrate it and one thing that I noticed before I did so was that there were odd colors when you look at the sides, top or bottom. There's a setting called AUTO GAIN and as soon as you hit it, everything looks perfect from all sides except the bottom. Viewing from bottom has the worst viewing angle of all four sides.

Another very tasty tid-bit about this monitor is that it really DOES have a backlight setting function. And you don't have to go into the settings to do it. There are four backlight levels and each one significantly different from the one before itself. You just tap the LEFT key on the monitor and it changes it; me likes.

I hope to have received the MAYFLASH today. HOPE.

And still working on testing out a more expensive screen. Yet, even with that, the total cost is still under 550.00 for a complete setup.

I'd like to reiterate here: The objective is to find a monitoring solution on par with iKan, a healthy trade-off for the cash spent. It's not going to be the perfect solution, but it'll be easy on your pocket as long as you take your time searching for the components.

[Kholi]

Would also like to add in here that those using non-HD cams (DVX specifically) can simply grab-and-go with the higher resolution LCD's. If I only had a DVX, I would use S-VIDEO out to this Lilliput, find a stand for it or even buy a noga-arm and things would be ready to go.

So that's another plus. And, I think they are totally acceptable for field use... well... as long as you get them in BLACK. =P

[Doby45]

I am just wanting to see if this would be a viable option. I am using a VX2100 (non-HD) and just want a really crisp monitor for pulling focus with the 35mm adapter. Can I just grab a monitor such as a computer monitor (flat panel LCD) that has atleast 800X600 resolution and use a S-Video to VGA adapter and use that? I know it would not be battery powered and would need an AC power cord, but would that not work?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/314775-REG/AV_Tool_Box_AVT_3300_AVT3300_Up_Converter_Scan.htm l

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/383563-REG/Canon_0561B001_LV_CA33_S_Video_to_VGA.html

Now rememebr this is strictly for us guys running SD and AC power, but would that not make a good video monitor?

[William_Robinette]

Kholi,

(I'm one of those lucky guys running a DVX :))

If there a place to attach a Noga arm to the Lilliput? Or is this a hack and slash construction requirement with this monitor?

[Kholi]

Doby45-- You only need to power the LCD which is good. You can get a 7pin to 4pin S-Video converter off of Monoprice.com or the second link you have posted will work. Make sure it's a FOUR pin as cameras are FOUR pin. Seven pin carries RGB/High Quality signals. The Lilliput I have should do fantastic for any DV camera. You can get the 619GL or the newer 629GL.

Will-- Yeah. There's a bracket on the back to attach mechanisms.
http://i10.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/97/7e/dea7_1.JPG

Looks JUST like that. And, also, it came with the DESK STAND. I have an idea on how to convert it to work as an arm til I can get a NOGA m'self. That or the tight-looking Zacuto arm that costs like 300.00. OUCH.

In fact, you guys, I have a DVX downstairs. I'll go and test it out soon here with SD out VGA and S-Video. ... or I could just shoot SD out from the HVX and test it w/ and w/out the adapter. LOL.

Sometimes the easiest things come hard for me, and that harder come easy.

[Drew Ott]

Good work Kholi. I appreciate your testing of this.

I'm going to keep checking back here for your "final analysis".

[siniarch]

No Kholi,
The screen resolution is native 1024x768. and yes it does have a setting to power the brightness on the tubes, and a setting to adjust the brightness on the display.
plus I'm driving the display a little brighter than what the company specs. are. it reduces the life of the diplay slightly, but in direct sun it will be a god send.

Matty_G and I are doing castings right now, and he did bring his marshal. I'll let you guys know how the comparison went. :)

[USLatin]

well it seems I might get a divorce before we get married... Michelle will kill me when she hears that now I am considering getting an on-board LCD...

then again I have a whole scene that has uber soft coverage on her and since it was a fig rig shaky scene it is way too crazy... having one of these with almost 4 times the pixels of the built in would have kept our operator informed of the need to re-shoot...

[Kholi]

No Kholi,
The screen resolution is native 1024x768. and yes it does have a setting to power the brightness on the tubes, and a setting to adjust the brightness on the display.
plus I'm driving the display a little brighter than what the company specs. are. it reduces the life of the diplay slightly, but in direct sun it will be a god send.

Matty_G and I are doing castings right now, and he did bring his marshal. I'll let you guys know how the comparison went. :)

Great. Can you take pictures as well? Thanks for your info.

That'll be the first sub 10" LCD that I've seen with a native resolution of 1024 x 768. Velly nice. It'd be cool to see a manufacturer's sheet on that screen! I've got no intention of buying it... anything around the Marshall's price range seems unreasonable to me: if you're going to spend 100 less than a Marshall building one, you'd might as well purchase the Marshall and get warranties, brand name, resell value, etc. That's prolly just me.

I did NOT get the converter today. =( I think they lied when they said USPS priority from CA to CA. Lame.

Guess tomorrow.

Oh yeah and tell Matty_G to give me his SGpro, please.

[Lucas Adamson]

Hey Kholi,
I got the Xenarc 7000V today and it is sweet. It is exactly the same case as your liliput too, with that tiny connector I don't recognise. The S-video part of my cable has been cut off (I got the screen new, but cheap because this had been removed for something else in desperation)but I still have RCA connectors for audio and video. I would like a new cable, but have no idea what to look for. I also need a mount for the hotshoe and a battery or two. How long will a 1800maH Li-ion last on a 7" monitor? I thought that if it's not long enough, I may have to go down the lead acid route, but that really anchors you down in weight. Your help would be appreciated folks - with my flip out broken, I'm pretty keen to get this baby on the road.

All the best
Lucas

[Lucas Adamson]

Also, frivolous perhaps, but I want an Ikan 7" monitor hood. It's $24.95, which rocks, but they want $100 to ship to the UK!!!!??!! Anyone fancy forwarding one on for me in the spirit of DIY International brotherhood?

[Kholi]

Hey Kholi,
I got the Xenarc 7000V today and it is sweet. It is exactly the same case as your liliput too, with that tiny connector I don't recognise. The S-video part of my cable has been cut off (I got the screen new, but cheap because this had been removed for something else in desperation)but I still have RCA connectors for audio and video. I would like a new cable, but have no idea what to look for. I also need a mount for the hotshoe and a battery or two. How long will a 1800maH Li-ion last on a 7" monitor? I thought that if it's not long enough, I may have to go down the lead acid route, but that really anchors you down in weight. Your help would be appreciated folks - with my flip out broken, I'm pretty keen to get this baby on the road.

All the best
Lucas


Oooo nice. The Xenarc screens are highly rated! Which model did you get? the 2007 or 2008 model? I'm going to post up 3 different LCD's that should provide the highest quality for under 550 (Completed).

I think that the weird SVideo connection you're referring to is the 7pin Svideo connector: it can carry RGB/VGA signals to the internal processor with no quality degradation. What you'll need to do is find another 7Pin S-video connector and splice the wires back together I believe. Check MONOPRICE or something similar to that.

The other slot connector that you see is either the RCA connector (special cable) or the VGA connector (D-Sub 15pin). Something like the connector on the back of a CRT PC monitor. It will also carry the signal you need and you can find converters that go from S-Video to VGA, RCA to VGA, etc. I think LCD4VIDEO on EBAY or www.LCD4VIDEO.com (http://www.LCD4VIDEO.com) has those.

As far as the batteries go, I have yet to test out how long the ones I have ordered power the LCD. Siniarch has some, he'd be a good person to answer the battery question until I have field usage or can let the monitor sit for a while to run the battery down.

[USLatin]

ok... so:

there are two reasons to get an on-board LCD, flip for a lens adapter and more pixels for focus... I don't have a lens adapter like many here but I will rent for worthy projects so my personal main concern is pixels...

Marshall is about $1300 and it is a 384,000 pixel screen...

Kholi is working up a Marshall contender for $550 plus arm...

Siniarch is talking ~$1200? for a 786,432 pixel screen...


if we considered only this for simplicity's sake and forgot that Siniarch's LCD is actually brighter than the Marshall and probably than any other solution discussed here then people like me can look at the difference in comparison to the built-in LCD on HVX's which if I remember correctly has only 220,000 pixels...


So for the HVX built-in LCD comparison:
$550 gets you 174%
$1200 gets you 357%

However those numbers don't matter, what ne need to look at is the performance in terms of the format:

Sadly for 1080:
built-in gives you 10.6%
$550 gives you 18.5%
$1200 gives you 37.9%

However for 720:
built-in gives you 23.8%
$550 gives you 41.6%
$1200 gives you 85.3%

For 480:
you just go with the $550 and we hate you cause you get 1:1

so... if you shoot 1080 you are not going to see enough gain in pixel count to make your life completely different... it will only help a small to indiscernible bit if you go 800 x 600 and a helpful but still very not-enough amount with 1024 x 768...

but! if you shoot 720p... knowing that it is about half the size of 1080p which sucks if you shoot to get projected on big festivals with big screens, but yet this is the sweet spot of the HVX and 720p is know to hold up quite nicely on medium screens: you then get a helpful but still very not-enough pixel count from only $550 plus the flip! most definitely a deal! however! if you can spend the $1200 you have a practically-there pixel count at 85.3% the pixels required to display 720p... I mean WTF... that is so close even Hollywood high class film buffs can't complain about the workflow that much

hummm....


THIS IS TOO TOUGH... I NEED A BEER

[USLatin]

how much for the rigs with the arms and cables?

[siniarch]

OK did some quick comparisons with the marshal and my design. the image is FANTASTIC on my design. definitely better than the marshal. I think its also brighter, but I don't want to say something without getting some sort of light meter on it.

The viewing angle is amazing also. The marshal is ok on 3 sides, but looking from the bottom which becomes the top once you flip it, the image fades pretty fast. on this one, the image is really good on all sides.
I have to say, I'm super happy with it. :)

Now the bad parts:

it get a little more ghosting on 1080 as opposed to the marshall when you whip pan and there is a bright image with a dark area in the center of it. (I don't do much of this whiping so no big deal for me, and in 720 not noticeable)

The marshal had some ghosting also, but noticeable less.

Also the monitor has a blue mode, but I wasn't able to use it to calibrate when feeding the color bars. So I'll have to check on this.

Other than that, I think its awesome. It will weigh more than the marshall, but then again the 8.4" panasonic weighs in somewhere around 4.4lbs without batteries. I think I'll keep mine under 4lbs. I think the marshall is 2.75lbs. Mine will be around 3.5lbs

hope this helps

[Kholi]

ok... so:

there are two reasons to get an on-board LCD, flip for a lens adapter and more pixels for focus... I don't have a lens adapter like many here but I will rent for worthy projects so my personal main concern is pixels...

Even without a Lens adapter, I can certainly see the importance of having a larger on-board. The little HVX LCD hurts my eyes after a while, even if I can focus tack-sharp with M2 on it utilizing just that.



Marshall is about $1300 and it is a 384,000 pixel screen...

Kholi is working up a Marshall contender for $550 plus arm...

Siniarch is talking ~$1200? for a 786,432 pixel screen...


Correction on that. My target is the iKan monitor. I can't see my solution effectively competing with a Marshall monitor in any other category than PRICE. Quality is an entirely different ballpark. I think Siniarch's target is the Marshall HD monitor.

I think the iKan and ToteVision LCD's are healthy price points, and apparently so do other people considering that the iKan is pretty much back-ordered everywhere.




if we considered only this for simplicity's sake and forgot that Siniarch's LCD is actually brighter than the Marshall and probably than any other solution discussed here then people like me can look at the difference in comparison to the built-in LCD on HVX's which if I remember correctly has only 220,000 pixels...


So for the HVX built-in LCD comparison:
$550 gets you 174%
$1200 gets you 357%

However those numbers don't matter, what ne need to look at is the performance in terms of the format:

Sadly for 1080:
built-in gives you 10.6%
$550 gives you 18.5%
$1200 gives you 37.9%

However for 720:
built-in gives you 23.8%
$550 gives you 41.6%
$1200 gives you 85.3%

For 480:
you just go with the $550 and we hate you cause you get 1:1

so... if you shoot 1080 you are not going to see enough gain in pixel count to make your life completely different... it will only help a small to indiscernible bit if you go 800 x 600 and a helpful but still very not-enough amount with 1024 x 768...

Indeed. If you find a monitor that really has 1024 x 768 native resolution, the gains aren't enough to justify the price tag. You still do not get 1280 x 720 correct? I can surmise that if an 8.4" LCD has 1024x768, using it jacks up the cost for no real gains. Thus, iKan's, Marshall's, ToteVisions all use 800 x 600. Bringing costs down.



but! if you shoot 720p... knowing that it is about half the size of 1080p which sucks if you shoot to get projected on big festivals with big screens, but yet this is the sweet spot of the HVX and 720p is know to hold up quite nicely on medium screens: you then get a helpful but still very not-enough pixel count from only $550 plus the flip! most definitely a deal! however! if you can spend the $1200 you have a practically-there pixel count at 85.3% the pixels required to display 720p... I mean WTF... that is so close even Hollywood high class film buffs can't complain about the workflow that much

Again, it won't matter: it's still not enough to display the horizontal resolution. So it becomes pointless, IMO. It's just added expense when you'll get similar results to an 800 x 600 screen when dealing with the image itself. Also, if you're trying to get theater distribution, chances are you'll have the ability to monitor on the larger Gateway monitor in the first place.

I can't see doing 1080 to a 480 screen being any sort of problem, honestly.




THIS IS TOO TOUGH... I NEED A BEER

Get to it!

[Kholi]

OK did some quick comparisons with the marshal and my design. the image is FANTASTIC on my design.

Sick! Do we get pictures? I'd love to see it man!


definitely better than the marshal. I think its also brighter, but I don't want to say something without getting some sort of light meter on it.

Yeah, get it measured. It could be subjective. It could also have to do with amping up the brightness another level. Bright is good, either way. This is good to know!


The viewing angle is amazing also. The marshal is ok on 3 sides, but looking from the bottom which becomes the top once you flip it, the image fades pretty fast. on this one, the image is really good on all sides.

I think this is the second most important thing when choosing a monitor. You're right about the bottom becoming the top, and thus decreases the viewing angle from the "top" when flipping. However, does the Marshall have a built-in flipping mechanism? I have a monitor on the list that does this and has slightly better paper specs than the Marshall. Will post it up when I put up the TOP THREE LCD's post.

85 degrees on all sides is amazing. You've gone and gotten nearly the best possible Viewing angle there can be. Nice.



Now the bad parts:

it get a little more ghosting on 1080 as opposed to the marshall when you whip pan and there is a bright image with a dark area in the center of it. (I don't do much of this whiping so no big deal for me, and in 720 not noticeable)

The marshal had some ghosting also, but noticeable less.

Were both setups on the same shutter speed? I'm sure they were, just making sure. I can't really see why a screen with a better image produces much more ghosting. Then again, if you've built this piece-by-piece, it could be the decision in image processing.



Also the monitor has a blue mode, but I wasn't able to use it to calibrate when feeding the color bars. So I'll have to check on this.

This is one thing that the project won't have. Dunno how useful this is, but it'll definitely be a Marshall and Siniarch thing. =P



Other than that, I think its awesome. It will weigh more than the marshall, but then again the 8.4" panasonic weighs in somewhere around 4.4lbs without batteries. I think I'll keep mine under 4lbs. I think the marshall is 2.75lbs. Mine will be around 3.5lbs

hope this helps


That's quite a hefty package! When it's tripod mounted it should be okay. I think with batteries, component module, and screen on this one we're approaching 3.5lbs added weight. That's still pretty heavy for me and I've already set out to find better, smaller, lighter 12v rechargable batteries.


Pics, dude! And glad that it worked for you!

[USLatin]

ok... beer floating in my stomach... but just one so:

my personal situation makes the price tag an immense area of concern... but I am worried about getting a bigger screen to alleviate my eves and only go up to 18.5% the pixels from the 10% from the built-in for a bit more than half a grand... so this is a personal situation concern... yet I ask: If you didn't need the flip function, would you bother spending the cash? I mean out of purely focusing benefits... it it worth to buy in the 800 x 600 territory?


and Kholi, I believe you will be able to answer to all of us...

Anyone got $7,000 to spare? That's all I want right now then I can get Siniarch's LCD a secong P2, genny, Q6600 G0, secong video card a rubbermaid cart, better shotgun two bullet mics and upgrade to a 302 from my MixPre... can anyone spare that? :D

[Kholi]

One thing that I'd like to point out is the purpose here:

Which is to take advantage of technology to form something that works similar to at half the cost.

I do not feel that my solution will match a Marshall, beat a Marshall, etc. It's more like getting to an iKan level for hundreds less. Something that works GREAT for what you need and didn't cost you an arm and a leg.

Once you get to about the iKan price-point and aren't getting a significant amount more for your money, then you'd be better off purchasing something with a warranty, a brand name, resell value, etc.

I, personally, think that a savings of 200 is enough to justify the search efforts, semi-diy, and overall time spent putting together something like this.

[Kholi]

ok... beer floating in my stomach... but just one so:

my personal situation makes the price tag an immense area of concern... but I am worried about getting a bigger screen to alleviate my eves and only go up to 18.5% the pixels from the 10% from the built-in for a bit more than half a grand... so this is a personal situation concern... yet I ask: If you didn't need the flip function, would you bother spending the cash? I mean out of purely focusing benefits... it it worth to buy in the 800 x 600 territory?

YES. True: I would be less inclined to spend the money. Less provoked to get something like this but I'm sure down the road I would invest in it. From productions I've been on, it's always been a good thing to have one on-board monitoring solution. Be it for a director, or even asking a PA to move something out of frame. Half a grand doesn't just get you focusing, just like Half a grand for the 24" didn't just get you focusing.

You now have a secondary monitor for more than one person to look at instead of hobbling around one tiny LCD.

You have another method of focusing and framing.

You can look at a LARGER screen to cover your camera action. Really see where you're going and how well you're doing it.

I think 500 - 550 is reasonable. PERSONALLY, I don't think anything above 600 for a tiny LCD would be. I mean, I paid less than 600 for a 24" 1080P LCD. I can't justify anything more than 600 on something like that. I'm retarded.



and Kholi, I believe you will be able to answer to all of us...xD Thanks for the Confidence Vote. Remember, i'm not the only one that has done this. I got information and a few "what to avoids" by reading other people's experiences. I'll take credit only for the research I'm passing on.

But, you know me... I'll grind at it til it's right. I reseated my HSF more than thirty times in search of great temperatures on air. I'll do this til I get something totally acceptable and approved by the masses.

[USLatin]

I know you are not trying to match the Marshall... I was just typing fast as usual... sorry if I inferred that and confused others, and I also meant that since you are testing the $550 level with different options and all, then you will have a great idea of what's the best for that investment level... I wish I had more cash right now and I'd be right there with you guys tinkering away...

I completely see the benefit of the bigger screen in helping not to step on any wondering Pomeranians... and I can also apreciate avoiding smaking my face into a telephone post... :)

I also think sharing a tiny LCD is anoying as stangers have to get into each others personal space...

I also strongly agree that after purchasing a 1080p 1:1 24" beauty of a monitor... getting anything for the same or more $ is just frustrating as crap to say the least... thats what we get from doing something that requires a million gadgets that only a few of us need... no benefits from large supplies...

We need a 1080p 8" LCD to be made for $1200, so like a huge Treo 650 screen where you get 300 x 300 in 1 and 3/4 by 1 and 3/4... and still display 16-bit color... the tech is there... but nobody will make one yet... so frustrating!!! if it isn't cheap enough for kids to buy them for their Civics then there is no money to be made...

Thanks to both of you as well as everyone else that cracks their head open figuring out stuff and then being so generous as to type it up and share it...

BTW, I ploped the little $7k list on michelles lap with a straight face... and she said that it was a good thing I wrote it down!!! so we know what's next!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol!!! am I lucky or what? well... now I still need the money... :D

so back in topik... can we put a fan on these and make them brighter? lol

[Kholi]

You wish LED fans worked. =P

On the 1080p LCD deal, I can't say why we haven't seen one. It might not be cost effective at this point. I mean, if we can have 480p 3" LCD's, then we could see a good 1080 in the next few years as demands call for such; you can thank the HD trends.

------ On the Lilliput

I went ahead and connected the monitor via Composite and I must say it's not bad at all. IN fact, it brings my hopes up for the VGA conversion via Component out. I couldn't quite get it sharp, but I bet it'll be nice.

I've got a top three monitors list going. If I can get my hands on this specific LCD soon here I'll report on that as well.

[siniarch]

Yeah Kholi, both setups were at the same shutter speed. Its a function of the controller card. Unlike the adapter that you are getting, this board has all the functions in one piece. So I think at the 1080 resolution the controller card doesn't refresh as fast. I will contact the Mnf. and see if there is a way to increase refresh rate.

All the inputs, and all the menu, etc... Has picture in picture. Side by side picture, and even the ability to upgrade it to a HD-SDI. flip, rotate, you can even zoom the image a little. and probably enough that you get true 1:1 at 720p (something I believe even the $4200 panny doesn't have, but I don't have one so I don't know)

So the beauty is that you can get one now for around $1200, but if you get a new camera 2yrs down the road, you can probably spend another $300-400 (who knows by then maybe even less) and get the HD-SDI input.

So its upgradable. That is something that is on my mind, since I can see every manufacturer phasing out RGB for HD, and moving to uncompressed HD-SDI.

As for pictures, the difference is so sharp, that I doubt you could see it by taking a picture. The best thing would be to see them next to eachother in person. Whenever the next HVX user meeting takes place, I hope to have a demo to show all those that attend. :)

[Kholi]

Yeah Kholi, both setups were at the same shutter speed. Its a function of the controller card. Unlike the adapter that you are getting, this board has all the functions in one piece. So I think at the 1080 resolution the controller card doesn't refresh as fast. I will contact the Mnf. and see if there is a way to increase refresh rate.

That's something I'm going to wish for! To have it all in one unit instead of having to add another piece. That also saves on the extra battery connection. I guess it's a trade-off, though. Kinda like shooting digital instead of film and vice versa.



All the inputs, and all the menu, etc... Has picture in picture. Side by side picture, and even the ability to upgrade it to a HD-SDI. flip, rotate, you can even zoom the image a little. and probably enough that you get true 1:1 at 720p (something I believe even the $4200 panny doesn't have, but I don't have one so I don't know)

Whoa. That's cool. I thought an actual 720p image was only possible if the device displaying as at leasst 1280 lines of horizontal resolution and 720 lines of vertical resolution to display. I didn't know you could zoom in and have 720p. Gotta let me see that!



So its upgradable. That is something that is on my mind, since I can see every manufacturer phasing out RGB for HD, and moving to uncompressed HD-SDI.

Do you mean all around? In consumer market? I don't think there's a benefit at all to HD-SDI over RGB when most peripherals don't display an uncompressed signal to begin with. I'm not sure I see the benefit for HD-SDI outside of the actual field of production, might not be a large enough sector to totally phase out readily available, cheaper RGB any time soon. But, I'm no Nostradamus!




As for pictures, the difference is so sharp, that I doubt you could see it by taking a picture. The best thing would be to see them next to eachother in person. Whenever the next HVX user meeting takes place, I hope to have a demo to show all those that attend. :)

Yeah, that's true. If you're meeting up with Matty again next week let me know. I'll bring my hackneyed ghetto setup to see if the 550 was truly worth it. We can probably get USLatin to join in as well?

[USLatin]

that would be spectacular Siniarch!

Hey Kholi, you should make a point to come over too... and bring your sissy computer so you can show us how you are funning that fruity OS on it... :)

then we'd get to see the difference between eh focusing capabilities between the $550 and $1200 marks... which is what I need to take a look at!


I am in! Michelle will have to come and supervise so I don't go swiping the card away with you guys on a rampage trip to Fry's lol

[Kholi]

that would be spectacular Siniarch!

Hey Kholi, you should make a point to come over too... and bring your sissy computer so you can show us how you are funning that fruity OS on it... :)

then we'd get to see the difference between eh focusing capabilities between the $550 and $1200 marks... which is what I need to take a look at!


Why you hatin? LoL. Fine, I'll bring my Hackintosh to the next DVXuser meeting. Show you how a real NLE works.

FINAL CUT STUDIO PLEASE>

[USLatin]

hahahaha you and that POS Non Liking Editor... Vegas baby, Vegas!!! hahah you know what's hilarious, Siniarch uses Edius... if we get together there will be a brawl, lol

[Lucas Adamson]

My Xenarc was advertised as using a Panasonic unit. I can't varify that without opening it up, but it could be true, I guess. The image is absolutely excellent, but I cant think of a good way of representing that to y'all. My only disappointment is that there's no flip function, and so I'll have to flip it whenever I take off my lens adapter for whatever reason. Not such a biggie I suppose.

Still need a mount for the hotshoe though - any suggestions?

[Lucas Adamson]

Cable Information:

The connector on the Xenarc is a 20-pin DFP (Digital Flat Panel) connector, which is an old and nearly obscelete version of the DVI connector, with almost identical capabilities. I guess the Liliput is the same. I am yet to find a DFP to 4 pin S-video cable.

[Kholi]

Hey Lucas--

About the hot-shoe mount. You can try LCD4VIDEO.

As far as the connector, the picture I showed Will of the back of the monitor was actually a Xenarc. I can't remember seeing any certain other digita connection aside from the VGA.

Can you take pictures of your monitor?

[Bob Hill]

The connector on the back of most of the Xenarcs is not just for VGA. The connector is also supporting S video, composite video and 1 channel of audio. I have the pinouts if anyone would like them. Now if they would only support YPrPb we would have an inexpensive alternative.

Bob

[Kholi]

It works! w00t!!!

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/28263/1184962669.jpg

And it's GREAT. I'm pretty stoked. I paid 470.00 for this entire setup and it actually works. So to the point where I can do this in just seconds:

M2 + 50mm @ F2 -- HVX had Gain on @ 6DB sorry. ALL FOCUSED from the Lilliput LCD. (Thought these were flipped. OOPs. LOL I'm in a rush)

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/28263/1184962388.jpg
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/28263/1184962489.jpg
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/28263/1184962516.jpg

Pretty damned good for me.

Viewing from up. All sides but bottom look great:
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/28263/1184962573.jpg

Viewing angle from down. You can see it gets dark, not too much of an issue. iKan and Marshall suffer from the same thing and everyone gets along just fine:
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/28263/1184962593.jpg


http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/28263/1184962555.jpg


Extra tidbits:

Only works in 1080i with this screen. 720p doesn't work. Not sure if it's the screen or the limitations of the device not being a direct component. No matter, because 1080i works fine.

Have to adjust the screen before you use it. Well, that's a given but just wanted to point that out.

Mayflash is TINY. It'll integrate into the setup VERY nicely. I'm happy that it's so small.

S-Video and Composite from your SD camera works REALLY well. I could totally recommend this LCD for DVX100's and any other SD solution that needs one. I ran around with it in SD and it was great. So, those who don't need a hi-def signal, roll with it!

NEXT UP: Xenarc LCD. I'm going to try to order one today to compare and contrast and whichever works better for me, I'll keep. The Xenarc is more than 100 more than the Lilliput, but has a few extra options that might be good.

I'm very happy that this worked out and will be using it this Sunday on a shoot. w00t!!!

[siniarch]

Great news Kholi,
I'm glad its working for you. form the pictures it seems very similar to the setup I had.
We'll have to get together so you can appreciate the new screen I just got.
Congrats!!!!

[Kholi]

If the viewing angles were the same, then you probably dislike the Marshall. Has the same exact specs as the iKan and Marshall for the most part.

I'm about to order a Xenarc screen and do my Comparison runs. Although it will boost the cost to 660.00 w/3 Batteries. Which goes over my original plans.

However, that's the only one that goes above 550.00 so we'll see!

When I get the Xenarc we should definitely meet up and compare.

[Kholi]

http://www.xenarc.com/product/700ts.html -- Just ordered that. Looking to compare it to the half-of-the-price Lilliput.

Bob Hill -- What exactly is the connector if it's not VGA? And, is there a VGA to said-connector converter?

[moe52]

Great stuff guys! Please let us know the final price and website.I have the Canon xha1 and the Brevis35 and could used the great resource that was shared by all of you,Thanks moe52

[USLatin]

hey Moe... u in Boyton? My sis just got married there... they lived in Boyton but moved to Sarasota... Parents still living in Boca... too bad you have a Canon or I'd say you are a cool dude, :)

Kholi... the Dust Off shot seems a tad soft... please, talk to me... you said you were in a rush... is that why? Were you tinkering in company time again? lol

[Kholi]

LOL. Yeah I was at work. You know me TOO well. And remember, I'm not using a NAKED HVX. It's an M2 + HVX. Everything is softer with a 35mm adapter. Ask people to post 720p clips of their M2 footage and see how much softer it is compared to the 720x480 stuff they post. I didn't know until I got one for m'self. But unless you have some Zeiss glass or Lomo's or something, you're going to sit in soft land.

If you want me to tear off the M2 and focus with a naked HVX I'd be happy to do so. =D

However, I used the mini LCD and the Lillput and got the same results from both. Which tells me that I sure as hell can focus just the same with the Lilli.

Also just got finished trying out a signal splitter and that works too! So I can have a 50ft running to the Gateway and a shorter one running to the monitor. Life is good.

Moe -- My final price with the Lilliput so far reads like this:

Lilliput 619GL (Black) -- 210.00
Mayflash VGA Converter -- 70.00
3 x Mp3300 Tekkeon Rechargable batteries -- 170.00
Total -- 450.00

I also purchased an extra bit of Velcro and such, but those extras are up to buyer.

Overall, I think the project is a success and totally usable. Now you need an arm to add, and to put it all together.

[USLatin]

hahaha...

true... not having the M2 I forget all too easily... please do post an X-rated version of the test, but don't be taring the M2 off now.. it is only a few weeks old... lol

DUDE!!!! 50ft. + the on-board?!?!? life IS good!!! (not I just have to spend $450 + arm and get the M2 :D hahah life sucks... lol)

I am going to take a look at the arm solution cause $450 is just waaaaaay too cheap... but I have a strong feeling that sisniarch has that covered... Sini, u around?

[William_Robinette]

Very nice. Thanks for putting this together for us guys. I will be using this solution no doubt.

[Kholi]

You're lucky. You only need the Lilliput for your DVX. I wouldn't recommend anything less than Xenarc, Lilliput, or Dynamix at this moment. Those seem to be the best LCDs you can find.

I'll try the naked HVX here soon. Gotta eat something first and do some more pre-production. But I'm pretty confident in using it for this Sunday with no hassles outside of the HVX's disgusting D4 Cable.

Ugh. I hate the connector.

[USLatin]

I thought it was the best thing till I used it... it is a bit flimsy... and I can't find a long cable still!!!!! only have the tiny short one that comes with... :(

[Kholi]

Someone needs to come up with a solution for the flimsy connection. It's so weak if you just look at it, the signal goes out. I hate it sooo much.

I guess Gaffing it down should work for now.

About the 50ft Component cable: I got it from monoprice for less than 20.00 shipped. Hell of a deal and they work just fine. Also, I got a Component splitter from monoprice as well and it does work. I fed the Lilliput and 42" HDtv the same signal, not a hitch.

I dunno about an arm solution, yet. It shouldn't be hard for someone to come up with a solid articulating arm, to be honest. It's just poles and a pair of mounts, right?

[Kholi]

Short D4 Cable Solution: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=1004738#post1004738

[Luis Caffesse]

Kholi -
Thanks for the pics - always nice to see this stuff in action.

Quick question for you:


Only works in 1080i with this screen. 720p doesn't work. Not sure if it's the screen or the limitations of the device not being a direct component. No matter, because 1080i works fine.

Now, do you mean the monitor itself will only display 1080i - or that it will only accept a 1080i signal? I noticed on the LCD that you were running 720P out of the camera...so just wanted to make sure i knew what you meant (because 99% of the time, I'm shooting 720P - and I think most of us probably are).

:thumbsup:
Again, nice work...

[Kholi]

Oh, it will only take the Av/in-out @ 1080i. Marshall and iKan will do 720, 480, and 1080i. I'm not sure how much of a difference monitoring at 1080i is versus 720p. Can anyone tell me?

It looked fine to me!

I'll let you know if the Xenarc will accept the 720p signal.

If you want to use 480, you simpy go S-Video out.

[Bob Hill]

Kholi,

The cable provided by Xenarc breaks out the connection into 2 composite inputs, 1 single channel of audio and the VGA connector. My cable also has a USB connection for the touchscreen function. Here a few pics of my shoulder mount with a Xenarc installed. Notice the RCA connector on the back of the monitor. It connects directly to the AV2 connection on the monitor without having to go through the provided cable. I have a pinout chart for the connector if anyone is interested.


Bob

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/14894/1184994446.jpg
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/14894/1184994493.jpg
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/14894/1184994551.jpg
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/14894/1184994591.jpg

[Kholi]

AH! I got it. I'm interested in the pinout! And the name of the cable itself. Is it Xenarc proprietary?

Also, what are you using to mount the Xenarc to that shoulder harness? What IS that shoulder mount?

Also, how are you using the monitor with the HVX? Just S-Video/Composite?

Edit: Nevermind. You have the 08 TSV as well! How does it work!?!? Gotta get mines!

Thanks for the pictures and the help! Very much appreciated.

[Bob Hill]

Hi all,

Here is the link to a pdf covering the pinouts of the Xenarc monitor:

http://www.silverbackpictures.com/images/20pin_pinout.pdf

[Kholi]

Hotness. Thanks for the in-depth help, Bob. Very great contribution to the thread!

[Bob Hill]

Oh I forgot. The connector on the monitor side is called an MDR-20.

[USLatin]

What I was asking is if you know where to get a long D4 for the Gateway 24"

I am borrowing one when I use it... anywho... I am interested in getting whatever you used for the on-board + the 50ft to the Gateway... that's the way to go FTW... so I am not sure what to buy now but I have to figure this out as soon as you got your results all tallied up... I am really looking forward to your opinion as to focusing with the built-in versus the 800 x 480's with naked HVX 1080 and 720 :D

[Kholi]

Oh, dude. I just use a D4 Cable + RGB Extenders + Component Splitter + 50Ft Cable.

www.monoprice.com -- You don't need a longer D4, you extend the D4.

I'll reserve my final thought on the Lilliput + HVX combination until this Sunday, but I think it's a winner. And I think the Xenarc that Bob Hill has and that I've ordered (same one) will be even better for an extra 125 - 150.

At that price, you spend 660.00 for a fully powered solution which still comes in lower than buying an iKan monitor, considering with the 800.00 8000HD monitor you don't get battery power; still have to buy batteries.

Now we just need an arm.

[USLatin]

I thought that would be the way to go, but I was worried about the added noise from the connections...

so the short D4 you found to a splitter then a short RGB to the 800 x 480 and a long suka to the 1080p... all of these I haven't thought about... I can't wait to see if you think I would benefit from this for focus alone... I'm probably also gonna need a plate and rails though...

[Kholi]

None. Image degradation via component doesn't occur until over 100ft I believe, so long as you're using decent cables. 50Ft is a no-problem. The ones from Monoprice saw no degradation when I compared signal between short Component and 50ft.

=DDD

[Lucas Adamson]

Oh I forgot. The connector on the monitor side is called an MDR-20.

I researched and found it to be called a DFP connector. I may be wrong but it looked just like it to me on Wikipedia.

Lucas

[Lucas Adamson]

Oh yeah, OK - searched again - it's a DFP MDR-20, to give it it's full title. Obselete, but connectors for DVI can be found, but the original Xenarc cables seems pretty exclusive to Xenarc, so I think replacements will have to come from them, unless somebody knows better (which they usualy do).

[carlmart]

And the other thing is that you need 2 batteries. this one really sucks.


Completely agreed that using two batteries for such a small portable setup sucks.

Why not go a bit further and build a small 5v or 6v regulator to feed the Neoya from the 12v battery?

It's quite straightforward, using a perforated prototype pcb piece and a few parts, like 5 or 6. It will fit in a small box that you can velcro or glue to the battery.


Carlos

[Zak Forsman]

please forgive my ignorance, but is there a reason why something like this...

http://www.infocus.com/Accessories/Cable/SP_VESA_ADPT_R.aspx

would not work in place of the MayFlash adapter?

[carlmart]

please forgive my ignorance, but is there a reason why something like this...

http://www.infocus.com/Accessories/Cable/SP_VESA_ADPT_R.aspx

would not work in place of the MayFlash adapter?

No, that is a passive adapter. But for this application you will need an active adapter, to convert the component signal onto VGA.

[Bob Hill]

Zak,

That connector goes from a VGA connection to Component and we need to go the other direction. It is very easy to get this confused ;)

Bob

[Kholi]

Yup, thanks for 'splaining that Bob and Carl.

You need an active adapter that goes from component to VGA connection to make it work, Zak.

And besides, the Mayflash will be cheaper once Sewell gets them in next month.

The extra battery added to the setup really doesn't bother me. It's about finding the right size which we might have a solution for soon.

[Kholi]

Completely agreed that using two batteries for such a small portable setup sucks.

Why not go a bit further and build a small 5v or 6v regulator to feed the Neoya from the 12v battery?

It's quite straightforward, using a perforated prototype pcb piece and a few parts, like 5 or 6. It will fit in a small box that you can velcro or glue to the battery.


Carlos


Definitely. Which is my next plan. I'm going to go ahead and (by information from another member) build a 6v battery pack for the Mayflash that'll strap right to it, and then the mayflash will Velcro to the screen. Bein' that it's only 6v, it should last quite some time before even needing a charge I'd suspect.

[Kholi]

I didn't get to shoot yesterday, but got to shoot today with the Marshall and I'm pretty damned happy that I went the way I did.

We had a rental Marshall today and it wasn't good enough, to me, to justify spending 1200+ on a 7" Screen.

The Lilliput may not be the BEST, but it is DEFINITELY good enough for the application IMO. Once cobbled together in a less chaotic fashion.

Smaller batteries, a way to strap the Mayflash to the system, etc.

I also bought a Xenarc that will bere tomorrow that I'll get to test.

[bwest]

very exciting stuff
can you compare the Xenarc against lilliput for dvx also?
My adapter comes shortly and I need the best I can get.

[Kholi]

Yeah. I'll shoot 480 from the HVX. Is that okay? I can go and dig up the DVX but I'd rather shoot on the HVX. =P It's funner w/P2.

When the Xenarc comes in tomorrow I'll go outside and check them both out with the M2.

The Lilliput, though? It's great. Just set it up after you get it and you're good w/S-video connect.

[carlmart]

very exciting stuff
can you compare the Xenarc against lilliput for dvx also?
My adapter comes shortly and I need the best I can get.

A good comparison for DVX, which I think has no component output, could only be done through S-Video. And I am not sure if the Lilliput has one. A comparison through composite may not be that good.

[Kholi]

Yeah agreed. S-video is what I'll try. I have an S-video 4-pin to 7-pin converter so I'll check it out.

Composite wasn't too terrible in SD, I would stick with the highest quality.

[USLatin]

man, I can't do this... there is no way for me to justify the purchase with the little increase in % or HD resolution display... Siniarch's is close enough to 720p which I am planning on shooting more of especially for this next 100% action short... but then the price makes it a big no-no...

man! I wanna kick something... :( I feel like ripping apart my Treo and mi girl's and a few others and jamming them into a box, duck-taping it all together and screaming at it: "parla!"

[Anthony Bristol]

Interesting reading guys, thanks for your effort. With regard battery solutions, would this product from Nebtek work?

http://www.nebtek.com/proddetail.php?prod=LIBA

If at all I'd like to use my existing batteries, and the Tekkeons are very expensive over here.

cheers!

[Kholi]

man, I can't do this... there is no way for me to justify the purchase with the little increase in % or HD resolution display... Siniarch's is close enough to 720p which I am planning on shooting more of especially for this next 100% action short... but then the price makes it a big no-no...

man! I wanna kick something... :( I feel like ripping apart my Treo and mi girl's and a few others and jamming them into a box, duck-taping it all together and screaming at it: "parla!"


Might have to reiterate this again: 720p = 1280 x 720. If you don't have both, it's not 720p.

Anthony -- Yes, the Nebtek thing will work. Little pricey though.

[USLatin]

yea... I am just using it as a rough estimate anyways, I also am considering that by having a given % of the total pixels, even if they were in the same aspect ratio, you still don't really get that exact % of focusing ability due to conversion... but those just make my case stronger unfortunately...

I can't see this as a good investment unless I had a flip issue like you... now for SD it would be worth it...

[Kholi]

yea... I am just using it as a rough estimate anyways, I also am considering that by having a given % of the total pixels, even if they were in the same aspect ratio, you still don't really get that exact % of focusing ability due to conversion... but those just make my case stronger unfortunately...

I can't see this as a good investment unless I had a flip issue like you... now for SD it would be worth it...

Yeah, just wanted to make sure you know that it wasn't close enough to 720p to make a difference. =PPP

Though, you're probably right about the investment. I need a larger monitoring solution all-around to be honest. Even if I don't have the M2 on, I'm gonna be using this monitor as much as I can instead of looking at the LCD on board.

It's worth the investment to those that need it. And I ended up spending 620 or so in the end because I will probably go for the Xenarc after it's all said n'done.

[USLatin]

yea, thank's Kholi... I saw you trying to make sure before but I never addressed it and got carried away commenting about something else... thank you, twice...

Yes, for M2 people this is a bargain... it solves the problem and you get a bigger less painful to look at and higher pixel count monitor... if you can go for it Siniarch's version is a bit better yet twice the price...

for me, not a good investment... for you, the 800 x 480 is a deal and just great, a must buy... the other is a bit much but would be nice to have... yet none of these are good workflows... none... and consider the the 24" 1080p LCD... even on my box with yoke and rolling stand... not a good work flow...

this SUCKS! well it only sucks cause we know that the tech is there for small 1080p LCDs and nobody is making them... very frustrating!

[Kholi]

yea, thank's Kholi... I saw you trying to make sure before but I never addressed it and got carried away commenting about something else... thank you, twice...

Yes, for M2 people this is a bargain... it solves the problem and you get a bigger less painful to look at and higher pixel count monitor... if you can go for it Siniarch's version is a bit better yet twice the price...

for me, not a good investment... for you, the 800 x 480 is a deal and just great, a must buy... the other is a bit much but would be nice to have... yet none of these are good workflows... none... and consider the the 24" 1080p LCD... even on my box with yoke and rolling stand... not a good work flow...

this SUCKS! well it only sucks cause we know that the tech is there for small 1080p LCDs and nobody is making them... very frustrating!


If someone knows a reason why a small 1080p LCD is wortwhile I'd like to know. After using one, even a small 720p doesn't even "seem" worth it but I haven't seen any small 720p screens of this size so I wouldn't know. It just doesn't seem like there's enough real estate or perception of the human eye at this size to make enough of a difference.

Even still, I'd love to see Siniarch's screen and the native resolution exceeding 600 at nearly the same size! That way I can see if there's a difference to my own eye worth investing in.

232 to 480 is probably going to be a more noticable difference than 480 to 720 at the same screen size. S'all speculation.

And if you don't need it... stop beating yourself up about. LoL. You did the same thing with Quad Cores.

[USLatin]

I need the Quad... I need power for sure... and it is much cheaper, and a huge impact on my day to day :)

about the small pixel screens... you see it... I have to show you what 320 x 214 looks like on my 2" active display for 16:9 when I play on my Treo... it is UNREAL how much detail you see on such a minuscule screen... while projection helps by allowing for you to relax your eye, and even by allowing people with poor vision to see better... if you can see the pixel then it is useful, no matter how small it is... trust me on this one Kholi... it would be heaven on earth to be able to shoot looking at that thing... not the same as say the 24" 1080 and not like a 60ft version of the same amount of pixels.... but it would be an amazing tool which would quickly become part of the pro workflow's package...

[USLatin]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait.... something is off here

these pixels aren't smaller... I thnk it is a case of an old assumption that I've carried with me for a long time... these are not small pixels...

320 x 214 = 68,480 pixels on my Treo's 16:9 display

2,073,600 / 68,480 = 30 !!!

30 x 2 inches = 60 inch display!!! ?!?!?

I am a bit delirious since I worked aaaalll day on the computer, the only reason I am up is cause I am waiting for the .avi to render so I gan start the P2 authoring and watch it tomorrow...

so it seems this freaking screen isn't using abnormally small pixels and if anything the ones on my 24" are much smaller!!! ?

this must have been cause I saw stunned the first time I saw the Treo's screen die to contrast brightness and color count... and the pixel count too of course, but I have been telling the fish story where every block you walk you tell the story about how big it was and it keeps getting bigger and bigger... I sorry... I will research the size of the smallest pixels and run some numbers to make up for the confusion I might have caused

[Kholi]

Arright I'll trust ya. Til then, if people are buying up Marshall's that display a Max res of 800 x 600 (720x480) then it's probably good enough to focus with.

Should ask those guys. xD

[Kholi]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait.... something is off here

these pixels aren't smaller... I thnk it is a case of an old assumption that I've carried with me for a long time... these are not small pixels...

Boy, what are you talking about? You've totally LOST ME.

[USLatin]

there I edited the post... ::shame::

[carlmart]

I need the Quad...


What Quad is that?

[carlmart]

Kholi,


Are you alright with the power connector on the monitor?

I ask that because I have a 7" monitor I bought in B&H in 2005 and that jack sucks big deal! No plug can keep a reliable connection, and you have to fix the cable so it doesn't move.

As I have gone through an alternate path for my monitoring solution, using a Philips PET-1000, I didn't pursue my plan of changing it for a better jack. But you might consider that on your combo if you have a similar problem.

[carlmart]

This is the way Nebtek solved the interface with the outer world on their monitor, adding the voltage booster at the same time.

http://www.nebtek.com/proddetail.php?prod=100Neb58proli

[bwest]

Yeah agreed. S-video is what I'll try. I have an S-video 4-pin to 7-pin converter so I'll check it out.

Composite wasn't too terrible in SD, I would stick with the highest quality.

Hi again kholi,
Sorry to keep interrupting you with my low res needs, but are you saying that my "rca video out" of my dvx may be good enough for the lilliput, or that the s-video is needed for best resolution?
Funny, I've never seen a difference with s-video, infact its always been bad luck for me, cause it seems less res than the rca... Strrange huh?
Anyways, could you link me with that 4pin to 7pin converter you speak of?

[Zak Forsman]

kholi, thanks for all your research. i've ordered a pair of Lilliputs, a pair of vDigis, some nice lightweight polymer li-on batteries, voltage regulators, chargers, sunshades and all the necessary wiring. even snagged a pair of those short D4 to component cables you found. the whole thing should weigh less than a pound and a half which was of primary concern to me as this needed to be a solution for a handheld rig for my DP on Heart of Now. so she thanks you too. :) when all the parts have arrived and i put it all together, i'll post some pics .

[USLatin]

Q6600 G0

[Kholi]

Carlmart -- Actually, the screens power connector is pretty fantastic. It's an L-connector at the bottom left of the Lilliput and very sturdy. Never had an issue with it. My issue right now is just figuring out if I can compact this setup anymore, and still doing a hunt. Another member (Bob Hill) is helping with a different sort of battery setup and we'll see how that goes.

bwest -- S-video is definitely a better signal than RCA. Whether or not you can perceive that is the question. I'd have to go and find the link to where I got mines from, I haven't tested it just yet either. I've tested S-Video out to the Marshall and it's better than RCA for me. S-Video from my Gamecube is better than RCA. =P So, I'd assume that it follows through all video components.

Zak -- Glad I could help! The thing is, I hope that it'll work for you the same. Please make sure that you purchased the Lilliput 619GL or 629GL as those are 16:9 800 x 600 Native resolution monitors. The others aren't so hot.

I got an order confirmation about the shorter D4 cables! Looks like they're sending them out and I might already have them at work if I can recover and actually GO to work.

Please show me how you've put it all together in the end, I'd love to see it!

[Kholi]

By the way, we have one report from Siniarch who says that he didn't quite like this similar setup.

Second one comes from me, my personal experience is that it's a pretty good solution AND alternative to more costly items (Marshall, Ikan, ToteVision).

Another one is on DVinfo and the guy stated (Check my first post for the link) that he's using it and loves it.

So when you do it, please come back with your experiences. DVX or HVX, so that we all know what this does, can do, will do, won't do.

I'll take pictures of the Xenarc and Lilliput side-by-side and in action when I get the second monitor.

[Bob Hill]

Hi all,

Batteries, batteries, batteries. I am putting together some documentation to help DIYers put together either NiMH packs or LiIon but I have a couple questions to ask. What voltages need to be supported and what kind of connections are needed? I know Kholi's rig needs 6V and 12V but I don't know the type of connector for the component to VGA converter or if there are any other voltages that need to be supported. In the meantime here is link to a good supplier or NiMH and LiIon/LiPolymer batteries chargers and supplies:

http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp

[Kholi]

Thanks for chimin' in, Bob.

Got the D4 Cable, it's crazy-short! A+ Material.

And the Xenarc came in at the same time so will update with pics soon. Xenarc looks SWEEEETTTT.

[Lucas Adamson]

Hey all,

I've been trying to work out an economical, powerful and lightweight battery solution. We all know how li-ion is the obvious choice, right? Well, Lithium Polymer is even better - an advanced version of Li-ion, being much lighter, smaller per Ah and it seems, the same price or less??!!??

The Xenarc screen, which is very very good, by the way, will take voltages of 11v - 24v, with a power supply input marking of "DC12V 1A" The included power supply puts out 10 - 13.5v 1.5amp max 15watt max.

I have found Li-Po radio controlled batteries rated at 11.1volts with 4Ah -7Ah capacity for very cheap on eBay, and they say "continuous current 35Amps Burst 44Amps" but my question is this: Will they output too many amps and blow the monitor, or is this a maximum current pull, with ampage being regulated by the device being powered? Somebody here must know how batteries work. This could be a cracking solution.

All the best
Lucas

[Bob Hill]

Hiya Lucas,

Those Li-Poly batteries you are talking about are impressive. Your concern about the amp hour capacity damaging your monitor is not an issue. Amps are the capacity or amount of charge the batteries can hold. In the case of the batteries you are talking about 7AH capacity at 11.1 volts means it could power a 1amp draw 11.1V device for 7hours (this is very rough in reality) or a 2amp draw 11.1V device for 3.5 hours. That said, you probably want to look at the 14.8V batteries to support the Xenarc. Hopefully this answers your question.

Bob

[Kholi]

Have either of you come across Li-Poly batteries @ 14v? 6v?

Those are the two primary voltages for the HD version of this setup. While you only need 12-14v (I was recommended 14v and it works fine) for just an SD application.

[Bob Hill]

You would find the closest one to be 7.4V You would then need a voltage regulator to step the voltage down to 6V. Here is a link for a variety of voltage regulators that would be applicable:

http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=410

Bob

[Zak Forsman]

here's what I bought battery-wise...

3x Polymer Li-Ion Battery Module: 11.1V 2500mAh Prewired PCB (http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3194) (weigh 1/3 of a pound and should last up to three hours each)

these will be wired in parallel between the Lilliput monitor and this, to power the vDigi VGA transcoder...

Voltage Breakout Board (http://www.trossenrobotics.com/store/p/5257-Voltage-Regulator-Breakout-Board.aspx)

Adjustable Voltage Regulator (http://www.trossenrobotics.com/store/p/5161-10W-Step-down-adjustable-switching-regulator.aspx) (the vDigi requires 7-9v)

plus all the wiring in between to make it work.

[Kholi]

Thanks Bob and Zak.

Zak, you have to let me know how the battery works out cause I am not experience enough to do that kinda deal on my own. I might have to get you to build one or Bob.

You got PM by the way.

[Bob Hill]

Zak,

Very nice. Having the PCB prewired makes life a lot easier. When you get everything together I would be interested to hear what you are getting for recharge times.

Bob

[Zak Forsman]

Thanks Bob and Zak.

Zak, you have to let me know how the battery works out cause I am not experience enough to do that kinda deal on my own. I might have to get you to build one or Bob.

You got PM by the way.


me neither. stayed up last night until roughly 4am learning more about electricity and voltage and wiring than i ever thought i'd need to know.

i'll let you know how they work out.


Zak,

Very nice. Having the PCB prewired makes life a lot easier. When you get everything together I would be interested to hear what you are getting for recharge times.

Bob

according to batteryspace.com, each pack will take about 2 hours to charge.

[Bob Hill]

I actually went with NiMH batteries in a 2.3AH setup. They charge in about 30 minutes and they run my Xenarc or Lilliput monitors for about 1.75hours each.

Bob

[Lucas Adamson]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the reply. It wasn't the Amp hours I was worried about, as I know that this is the capacity of the battery, but the ampage output. If the battery states that it outputs 33AMPS continuous and 44AMPS burst, is this a) Telling us this if more current than this is drawn, the cables will overheat, or b) Telling us that if used in a 1amp device it will fry it? I think I know the answer now anyway. It is the former - answer a, right?

I'll get some of these badboys then. 14volt you say - right you are Holmes.

Lucas

[Zak Forsman]

sounds good, bob. in my case, i didn't mind buying enough batteries to shoot all day. weight was my top concern because these rigs (i'm building two) will be used by my DP to shoot a 100% handheld feature. by day 20, she'll thank me. the whole thing should be just under 1.5 lbs if i'm doing my math right. the marshall i demo'd, with a battery pack, was twice that. maybe more.


http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4580/photoeo4.jpg

[Bob Hill]

Lucas,

What they mean is that you can draw up to 44amps for a very short period of time which is amazing. Very very robust battery.

Bob

[Kholi]

Aw man. I can't believe this. The Xenarc has so many more features like image flip and flop which is GREAT. Anti-Glare, TouchScreen (I need this for an experiment I'm doing)... it's just got so many great things going for it--

The Lilliput 619GL just won it for me. It's got more options to correct the image as far as color goes, and renders motion better than the Xenar. It also has a better TOP viewing angle than the Xenarc screen!

And best of all... It's HALF the price! I got the newest Xenarc 700TSV 2008 version and I am about to send it back.

Now I just gotta get the Lilliput Touchscreen version to compare and I'm good, but this is truly astounding. I really thought the Xenarc would be a sort of "upgrade" to the Lilliput screen, and in ways it's better because of the ability to flip the screen...

However, I'm sold on the Lilliput and will be keeping it over the neare 400 dollar Xenarc screen.

Sick.

Oh and Zak, you got your screens fast! you must've gotten them from the same person I did! They shipped pretty darn quick and had good customer service!!

Edit here------

I may try out the Dynamix 8" screen as well. Will definitely be trying out the LIlliput Touchscreen as I have a specific application for touchscreen usage in the field.

[bwest]

Rumor has it that the image of the touchscreen is noticably softer

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:2F8VsGF5ztYJ:dvinfo.net/conf/archive/index.php/t-35821.html+LIlliput+Touchscreen+LESS+RESOLUTION&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

FYI

[Zak Forsman]

Oh and Zak, you got your screens fast! you must've gotten them from the same person I did! They shipped pretty darn quick and had good customer service!!yeah? ebay? city of industry? $189 a pop? ring any bells?

[Kholi]

Thanks for that. That might be why I think the Xenarc doesn't look as great, because it's Touchscreen.

That said, I have begun to check on the Dynamix 8" because I really want a Touchscreen to control a computer or laptop from book bag or remote location.

[Kholi]

yeah? ebay? city of industry? $189 a pop? ring any bells?

Straight up! And he's only got two left. Those black ones are sooo nice looking.

Too bad about the Xenarc, I had high hopes.

[bwest]

yeah? ebay? city of industry? $189 a pop? ring any bells?

make that 1 available... thanks

guess im on the bandwagon

[Kholi]

LoL. Nice. You both have to let me know how this works out for you.

I am going to try the 629GL Touchscreen out and see which one works better for me in the end. I really hope the newer touchscreen isn't as soft as the 619 touchscreen.

[bwest]

LoL. Nice. You both have to let me know how this works out for you.

I am going to try the 629GL Touchscreen out and see which one works better for me in the end. I really hope the newer touchscreen isn't as soft as the 619 touchscreen.


I certainly will, probably have questions about connections when it comes, I'm east coast. I already have the Noga Israeli arm... hope to DIY a connector to it

[Lucas Adamson]

I bought 2 of these radio controller helicopter batteries on eBay. They're from Hong Kong, so will take a while to get here, but cheeeeap!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160140086175&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=006

They should last a few hours each, and boy they are cheap! Not as sexy as the Tekkeons, but you can only get those suckers in the US, and the postage in astronomical to the UK.

I am a little worried about the safety though, not of the batteries construction, as the Chinese don't look kindly upon killing each other randomly with batteries, I'm sure, but more the charging and short circuiting possibilities. I will need an appropriate charger. Does anyone know if I've mae a good purchace for a Xenarc monitor here?

[Bob Hill]

Lucas,

Those batteries look good and will work quite well with the Xenarc. Best guess is you'll get about 2.5hours of runtime per battery. Do be concerned though on the charger that you use and check to make sure that these batteries have independent voltage regulation on them so you don't draw them down too far or over charge them. They may have a pcb on them to perform regulation but I didn't see anything on the page you linked to. For a lot of RC applications they voltage regulate off the battery.

Bob

[Lucas Adamson]

Hi Bob

Looks like it has no PCB - guess that's why they're cheap. Oops! Does this meen they're going to die fast? I can't find a PCB to go with them - not on eBay at least. I should get one though, no? Oh drats! I still need a charger too. Well, it is DIY, I guess.

All the best, and thanks for your help
Lucas

[Kholi]

Nice work on battery hunting guys.

I really want to get smaller batteries. The Tekkeon's are officially too big for me.

Let me know what you people's pull up so I can copy!

[Zak Forsman]

hey guys -

just wanted to point out that the vDigi VGA transcoder doesn't work with my Lilliput 619GL(s). it creates a double image that looks like the interlaced fields are half an inch apart. lame.

on the hunt for a Mayflash or two. anyone got a source? i know sewelldirect.com should be stocking it in two weeks.

[Kholi]

Thanks for postin', Zak. Was just about to let everyone know. I'll put it at the front of the thread.

ALSO! An update on the Xenarc: something I forgot to mention was that it would only do 720P and while it did it well... that meant switching to shoot 1080i was a no go. Making it a non-contender for me because I do shoot 1080i. BIG THING HERE!

Perhaps with more voltage it would do 1080i? But not sure if that makes a difference.

[j]

Is that like doubling the voltage on an Arri "S" to make it shoot twice as fast?

:-)

[Kholi]

LOL Nah. It's more like adding more voltage to your PC's video card so that it'll run resolutions properly. That's just a theory.

[Zak Forsman]

hey kholi, when you are sending the 1080i feed to the lilliput, what resolution does it say you are getting in the Lilliput's monitor? with the vDigi in the mix i'm getting 720x400.

[Kholi]

640 x 480 is what it's saying it's doing.

The xenarc actually picked up 960x720.

[Bob Hill]

Hi all,

I am working on a battery guide but I was wondering what was the prioritization for everyone with regards to batteries, cost, weight, capacity, speed of recharge, etc. Please chime in with what you all are looking for.

For my own use my priorities were compatibility with all my accessories, ability to link together to power larger draw items, ability to charge much faster than discharge under use, and cost. With that I went with a NiMH solution for my filming. Not the lightest or longest lasting option but it was the best fit for my priorities. For about $145 I was able to make 6qty 2.3AH 12VDC battery packs and get a smart quick charger. All of which gives me 9 to 10 hours of operation of either my camera stabilizer rig or my shoulder mount using a monitor and on camera LED. Attached is a picture of one of the battery packs which weighs in at 15oz. and is 5.125" x 2.625" x 1.75"

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/14894/1185420402.jpg

[Kholi]

Bob that battery looks NICE!

So will these power a 6v device as well? That's the main concern with myself, being able to power the 6v device and 12v device separately.

This would probablly be the perfect solution, though, and I think I'll go ahead and get ready to change up.

Can you post the DIY/How-To for this at all?

[Zak Forsman]

kholi, what i've learned is that you must wire the two devices in parallel when using a single battery, with one to a voltage regulator before continuing to the 6v device.

[Kholi]

Oh crazy. So you've actually used one battery for both devices? That could save a few pounds.

Essentially... one 14v Battery with a 6v regulator attached as well? And when you say wire the two devices together.... you actually opened up the monitor and wired them together or how did you do that?

Thanks Zak.

By the way, I ordered a Noga arm and Hot Shoe mount from Filmtools. See how it does soon here.

------------

And that Lilliput overscan thing, you just lower the CLOCK to 0 and it fixes the issue. From there you just adjust it left to right and up and down.

[Zak Forsman]

Oh crazy. So you've actually used one battery for both devices? That could save a few pounds.

Essentially... one 14v Battery with a 6v regulator attached as well? And when you say wire the two devices together.... you actually opened up the monitor and wired them together or how did you do that?

Thanks Zak.no, i won't be opening it up. i'll be going like this...

11.1v battery >>> to tamiya connector (so i can easily connect it to a charger too) >>> wired in parallel to a 2.1mm dc plug >>> lilliput monitor

same 11.1v battery >>> to same tamiya connector as above >>> wired in parallel to a voltage regulator (converting 11.1v to 6v) >>> 2.1mm dc plug >>> VGA adapter.


And that Lilliput overscan thing, you just lower the CLOCK to 0 and it fixes the issue. From there you just adjust it left to right and up and down.cool. i was playing around with that trying to get mine to work. would you say the image "stability" is rock solid on yours (with the Mayflash)? again, as i said the vDigi transcoder gave me a double image. same thing happened using the component out from a Canon HV20. although, when i used the component out from the Kona card in my Final Cut Pro bay to test it, i got a (mostly) singular image although there were horizontal black lines running thru it and a faint secondary image visible. anything like that with the Mayflash?

[Lucas Adamson]

Kholi, I meant to ask you - that's a "filf" car outside Buck Pal right? Do you flit between Westminster, London and California, or is there a town called Westminster in California? I am studying film at Westminster University (the English one ;-) )

[XFR]

I actually was planning to buy roughly the same setup as this one, but I was not sure if the Mayflash would work and if the Xenarc would be better bang for the buck than the Lilliput, so a day later I saw this thread popping up over here. That's great!
I ordered this 8" Lilliput (http://www.lilliput.cn/889GL-80NP.HTML) a few days ago for $240 incl. shipping (gonna try to remove the touchscreen for better image quality)
The Mayflash VGA001 looked like it was sold out everywhere, but I found a Canadian site (link (http://www.merconnet.com/product_info.php?products_id=513)) which should have them in stock. I ordered 1 today, so we'll see :)

Only problem now is batteries, voltage, etc...

[Bob Hill]

Kholi,

I'll post up pics of how to put that type of battery pack together hopefully this evening. You can easily set it up to power both a 6v and 12v device by adding a voltage regulator and addition output plug. When I made my battery packs I had no need for anything other than 12V so there is only the one connection. That said there is plenty of room in the project box for a couple of voltage regulators. Basically it it a 10AA battery holder mounted inside the project box with the appropriate connections.

Bob

[Neal Buconjic]

Great thread!

Kholi, you sure know how to generate long threads! Awesome that there are so many contributors providing their experience and expertise.

Gotta love this website and the wealth of knowledge provided to it's users.

[Kholi]

no, i won't be opening it up. i'll be going like this...

11.1v battery >>> to tamiya connector (so i can easily connect it to a charger too) >>> wired in parallel to a 2.1mm dc plug >>> lilliput monitor

same 11.1v battery >>> to same tamiya connector as above >>> wired in parallel to a voltage regulator (converting 11.1v to 6v) >>> 2.1mm dc plug >>> VGA adapter.

cool. i was playing around with that trying to get mine to work. would you say the image "stability" is rock solid on yours (with the Mayflash)? again, as i said the vDigi transcoder gave me a double image. same thing happened using the component out from a Canon HV20. although, when i used the component out from the Kona card in my Final Cut Pro bay to test it, i got a (mostly) singular image although there were horizontal black lines running thru it and a faint secondary image visible. anything like that with the Mayflash?

Nothing like that with the Mayflash. Even between the two screens (Xenarc and Lilliput) The image has been rock solid. The weakest link in the chain is the flimsy connection to the HVX (D4 cable) and the shorter one seems better because I can wiggle it around and nothing cuts out!

Mayflash and X2VGA 2 should be the good ones.

[Kholi]

I actually was planning to buy roughly the same setup as this one, but I was not sure if the Mayflash would work and if the Xenarc would be better bang for the buck than the Lilliput, so a day later I saw this thread popping up over here. That's great!
I ordered this 8" Lilliput (http://www.lilliput.cn/889GL-80NP.HTML) a few days ago for $240 incl. shipping (gonna try to remove the touchscreen for better image quality)
The Mayflash VGA001 looked like it was sold out everywhere, but I found a Canadian site (link (http://www.merconnet.com/product_info.php?products_id=513)) which should have them in stock. I ordered 1 today, so we'll see :)

Only problem now is batteries, voltage, etc...

Thanks for the link to the Mayflash, XFR! Zak will be happy to see that because he needs a Mayflash now that the vDigi's aren't performing. Trial and Error.

I was looking at the Lilliput 889GL myself, dunno why I didn't try that one but now that you've ordered it please let us know how it looks with touchscreen before you take that out and then without. If there's no REAL difference in the image, you should put it back in later on for mobile pc control. That's what I'm doing.

I am awaiting the Dynamix 816 and the Lilliput 629GL LCD's to test out, and depending on what happens, I might move up to the 889GL as well.

Looks like the 629GL, though, has 60/60/80/80 viewing angle which sounds fantastic.


Bob -- I appreciate your input in this thread. Tremendous help to myself and others. Zak's a bit braver than I am on the battery front, pretty sure he appreciates (and everyone else) your input.

nmbuconj -- It's alllll just testing and figuring out ways to take advantage of what we don't have a lot of... Money. xD I'll probably spend a little more just testing and shipping back and forth, but if it helps people like XFR then great!

[Anthony Bristol]

From http://www.vnunet.com/personal-computer-world/hardware/2144434/lilliput-629gl-70np-c


Compared to its predecessor, the 619BG, this model has an updated physical appearance, including larger illuminated control buttons, is slightly narrower and uses a more matt, anti-reflective screen coating.
This coating has the unwelcome side-effect of blurring the screen image and the 619GL appears significantly sharper under normal viewing conditions.
For indoor use, we would recommend buying the 619GL, which will still be available, in preference to the new model.


EDIT:

Possible battery solution?

http://www.batterygeek.net/BG_9_12_60_Portable_DVD_Player_Battery_p/9-12-60_batterygeek.htm

I'm going to go with the 619GL, as I have read some complaints regarding the 889GL connection on the monitor, and the above complaint regarding blur on the 629GL.

For those in the UK looking for a Mayflash, I have found it at gameworldfirect.co.uk for £30, http://gameworlddirect.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=208_218&products_id=3207

[Kholi]

Yeah I might end up keeping my own 619GL, but, I really want a touch-screen solution to be honest. Sucks.

I have one more screen that's coming in-- Dynamix 816 and I'll let you guys know about the quality. As far as that battery goes-- it'll work, it's similar to the MP3300 Tekkeons that I have now but they're quite large.

I'm trying to figure out a compact solution and Bob and Zak are helpin' with that.

[Zak Forsman]

merconnect.com is shipping the mayflash now. they were actually out of stock until this morning.

[XFR]

merconnect.com is shipping the mayflash now. they were actually out of stock until this morning.
My status is now "ready to ship", although I saw they replied to my order yesterday with the message that they are out of stock and will be resupplied by Wednesday next week. We'll see :)

[Zak Forsman]

they said the same to me initially so I replied to cancel my order and they turned around saying they just came in and they would ship today. and I just got confirmation that they're out the door.

[XFR]

Ah, I see! Mine says it's shipped too, that's great. Now lets hope they put a lower value on the package as requested (else I might have to pay up to 70% customs duties :furious3:)

[Kholi]

I will update the forefront of the thread soon here with the places to buy the Mayflash, as it seems it might be the best converter for the job.

If anyone's looking for an arm solution, I invested in a Noga Israeli arm + moviecam Hotshoe Mount that totalled about 186.00 after shipping. It arrives today, I'll let ya know how it goes with the 619GL.

[Zak Forsman]

what size arm did you get? i have a Noga mini that just baaaaarely fits (when holding the monitor upside down on the left side of the HVX. i could use another half inch of reach though so I have some play.

[Kholi]

I got the 9.5 inch arm that was 139.99 + the hotshoe mount which gives me another inch.

I think it'll be good. I got it today and just waiting to leave work so I can go and connect them.

Did you put your batteries together yet?

[Zak Forsman]

they should be delivered today.

[Kholi]

Boy is the camera heavy with the noga, monitor, battery all connected. And that was just one battery and feeding the signal via Composite.

I can only imagine what happens when I put the M2 on! But it's fantastic having an arm on the camera now and much easier to use.

Once everything is put together I'll take pics. Waiting on a solution for shoulder mount and grips from a member here who's been extremely helpful and also a mattebox mount and the Dynamix LCD.

[imageworx]

I've been following this thread to put together a system with the Lilliput 619GL-70NP/C non touchscreen. Like Zak I was about to order the vdigi until reading about the double image problem, but I also found a post about a double image problem with the mayflash and the HV20 which I plan to use. link to post (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=94078&highlight=lilliput+double+image)

Has anyone used the Lilliput 7" , mayflash and the component out of an hv20?

I would like to use the Mayflash because of the small size, but more importantly I'd like to use something that works properly. Any help would be appreciated...

[Kholi]

Not out of the HV20. I'm doing it out of the HVX and get no sort of double-image. Strange.

I wonder if it's just the HV20 itself?

[imageworx]

Actually I was speaking about the post Zak Forsman made.


cool. i was playing around with that trying to get mine to work. would you say the image "stability" is rock solid on yours (with the Mayflash)? again, as i said the vDigi transcoder gave me a double image. same thing happened using the component out from a Canon HV20. although, when i used the component out from the Kona card in my Final Cut Pro bay to test it, i got a (mostly) singular image although there were horizontal black lines running thru it and a faint secondary image visible. anything like that with the Mayflash?

I too am using this camera (canon HV20), and wonder if it's the camera's output itself. That's why I'm curious if anyone has been sucessful in using the hv20 with either of the 3 Component to VGA adapters without issues.

[Zak Forsman]

if you can wait until wednesday, i'll post my Mayflash results for the HVX200 and the HV20, just for you imageworx.

[imageworx]

Thanks Zak, I'd appreciate that.

[Kholi]

I know that you were referrin' to Zak's post... just saying maybe the HV20 won't work with this solution?

But, ther eya go! Zak's gonna post up on it.

[bwest]

ok, I got my Lilliput from California today, and even though Im still at work, I managed to pull it out of the box and check it out for mailing damages. I plan on finding some time tonight to play around with it, but a quick question I have at this moment. There is a thick hard-wire coming directly out of the monitor and I initially thought this was a s-video cable, but its not 4-pin its 7-pin? So i looked up 7-pin s-video and the pins are not configured the same as a conventional 7-pin s-video? I found further evidence this is a 7-pin male mini din cable. Now Im planning to hook directly to my DVXa camera so I have no need for HD stuff, but Im told I would prefere the s-video connection over the rca's. So my question is what am I missing to go to the DVX's 4-pin s-video? And can anyone link me to it?

[Kholi]

Yeah, that's what I was tellin ya. You have to find the seven pin connector. I tried S-video with the Xenarc I had (sorry, been scrubbing through so much stuff I got it wrong).

Also, the S-Video adapter that I bought was incorrect.

HOWEVER-- the Xenarc's S-video vs. Composite wasn't THAT much sharper, although a little.

I'll have to hunt when I get a chance on the right seven pin to 4 pin converter. Monoprice is a good place to check.

www.monoprice.com

[bwest]

well anyways thanks Im on the hunt now too.
FYI 7 pin mini din http://pinouts.ru/connector/7_pin_mini-DIN_female_key_in_the_center_connector.shtml

[Kholi]

Yup that's it. Try it in Composite (Y|W|R) And see how the image looks til ya find one.

[bwest]

hey, will this cable listed under the video card work?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040114&p_id=2510&seq=1&format=2&style=

[Kholi]

That's the one I got. It's the wrong 7-pin, though. I think it has to go the other way. Female to Male.

=(

[bwest]

Kohli, If I were to get couplers then that above cable would work? Say something as this 7-pin to 7-pin coupler, all I would need would be a 4-pin coupler and I would be all set? http://www.action-electronics.com/ppdin.htm#Panel

# ADMD7FF (Mini DIN 7pin Coupler fem/fem) $3.96
Couple two Mini DIN cables together.

IN WHITE... 4 PARAGRAPHS DOWN THE PAGE

these couplers would effectively change the gender of that cable... least thats what im thinking.
hopefully all these connectors wont add noise

[Zak Forsman]

guys, I won't be able to report any findings until next week. have to travel back east through sunday.

[Kholi]

Kohli, If I were to get couplers then that above cable would work? Say something as this 7-pin to 7-pin coupler, all I would need would be a 4-pin coupler and I would be all set? http://www.action-electronics.com/ppdin.htm#Panel

# ADMD7FF (Mini DIN 7pin Coupler fem/fem) $3.96
Couple two Mini DIN cables together.

IN WHITE... 4 PARAGRAPHS DOWN THE PAGE

these couplers would effectively change the gender of that cable... least thats what im thinking.
hopefully all these connectors wont add noise

Hey that might work, Bwest. I wouldn't worry about image degradation, either. It's not that much changing to be honest.

Let me know if it works!

Zak-- We're still lookin out for your report. Let us know when.


I'm waiting for the Dynamix screen to get here... taking a while but I got a filling Lilliput is the winner, even without the touchscreen idea I had.

Can't wait to move beyond the LCD selection phase and actually rig everything together to complete it!

[moe52]

Kholi ,Thanks for your hard work and findings. It will make my choice and others a lot eazy.Waiting on your final result...

[Kholi]

Dynamix screen is just shipping today and to that I say "yeah right. Give me my money back.".

Lilliput 619GL it is, folks. Next stop: strappin' it all together.

[bwest]

my 9.7" Noga arm works great, holds that lilliput right off the back of the camera...upside-down [DIY flip]

[Kholi]

Did you get a HotShoe Mount? It's perfect with the Israeli arm! I have a good three or four configurations going and I don't think I need an arm clamp anymore thanks to the hot-shoe mount!

It's EGGciting.

[bwest]

yes, I got the hot-shoe mount with the arm at the very get go... mine's looking good, but what have you got now... got me curious there Wonder-boy

[Kholi]

I gotta take some pictures soon! Just waiting for the battery solution here and a Mattebox mount for the Formatt box! MicroRemote and a grip-and-shoulder solution.

The Monitor needs to get smushed together. I'm ready to start usin' it!!

Did you use your monitor yet w/composite?

[bwest]

No to the "using of monitor" I waiting for my couplers and cable to arrive, figure my 35mm adapter doesnt arrrive till end of October, so whats the rush. I do better with solving these little bugs when I go slowly. But, yea, take some more pictures as your steps increase so we can see what your doing? Whats a micro-remote [did I miss something]? Im going to design a sunscreen for the lilliput... I thinks... any idea's?

[XFR]

Received my Lilliput 889GL-80NP (http://www.lilliput.cn/889GL-80NP.html) today :)
Looks great, hooked it up to my pc, since the Mayflash might take a few days to arrive.
I removed the touch screen, to improve the image, took me less than 5 minutes with the help of this thread (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=40797), the LCD screen inside was an Hitachi. It should be pretty easy to place back the touch screen if you plan to sell this thing or use it later on.
Will report back in a few days, when the Mayflash has arrived, and I will be testing it with a Canon HV20.

[XFR]

And received my Mayflash today...

With the HV20 in 1080i Component output it just gives a blue screen:furious3: Although the monitor does recognize the signal, because it gives no error messages and the monitor led is green or 'active'. In 576i the monitor says not supported.
Composite works pretty good, I think it's even possible to focus with it in HD, but component should be a lot better...

Now I'm trying to find out why it doesn't work... the only thing I could find is the following:

HV20 Component out specifications:
Y: 1 Vp-p
Pb/Pr: +/- 350 mVp-p

HVX200 Component out specifications:
Y: 1 Vp-p
Pb/Pr: 0.7 Vp-p

As far as I could find in my quick search most component devices have 0.7 Vp-p instead of 0.35 Vp-p
I guess this is sort of the signal strength? That might explain why there are problems with the HV20 component output.
Although the +/- before the 350 might indicate that it is 350 for Pb and Pr each, I'm not sure?

If I put only the Y in the Mayflash, the screen has a 'signal', if I plug in/out the Pb or Pr there's no change, but when I plug out the Y, the screen loses signal even with the Pb/Pr plugged in... not sure if this is just standard, because the Y is the 'main input', or because the Pb/Pr signal is too weak?

I will try to search for more info about how component works... but in the mean time, if anyone has suggestions, etc... :smile:

- Y carries luma (brightness) information.
- Pb carries the difference between blue and luma (B - Y).
- Pr carries the difference between red and luma (R - Y)

[Kholi]

Did you press the button down on the Mayflash?

Also, Zak said he had issues with the HV20 as well. I'll have pics up of m'self actually using this setup soon. Gotta wait for them to show up in me email.

I wonder if the HV20 just doesn't work with this at all.

[XFR]

Did you press the button down on the Mayflash?

Also, Zak said he had issues with the HV20 as well. I'll have pics up of m'self actually using this setup soon. Gotta wait for them to show up in me email.

I wonder if the HV20 just doesn't work with this at all.
Off course ;)

But I've tested the HV20 with Mayflash on 5 other displays (3 CRT's, 1 TFT + TFT/HDTV) and none of them worked. All out of range...
To be precise HF 28.1kHz / VF 50.0Hz
That's something most monitors don't support... and I've looked for the display specs of the Hitachi screen inside (Hitachi TX20D16VM2BAA), it says the following:

HF Typical 31.6 kHz / Max 39.2 kHz
VF Typical 60 Hz / Max 75 Hz

Also, I've tried to hook up my component DVD player to my HDTV using the Mayflash and the VGA-in on my HDTV, nothing, same for DVD->Mayflash->Lilliput
That's probably because it's all PAL and the Mayflash only supports 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p and no 576p.

But back to the point...

"1080i/50Hz has a horizontal scan frequency of 28.1kHz, while 1080i/60Hz has a horizontal scan frequency of 33.6kHz"

Monitors usually don't support HF of below 30/31kHz
Maybe all the problems are only due to the PAL frequency?

[Kholi]

Off course ;)

But I've tested the HV20 with Mayflash on 5 other displays (3 CRT's, 1 TFT + TFT/HDTV) and none of them worked. All out of range...
To be precise HF 28.1kHz / VF 50.0Hz
That's something most monitors don't support... and I've looked for the display specs of the Hitachi screen inside (Hitachi TX20D16VM2BAA), it says the following:

HF Typical 31.6 kHz / Max 39.2 kHz
VF Typical 60 Hz / Max 75 Hz

Also, I've tried to hook up my component DVD player to my HDTV using the Mayflash and the VGA-in on my HDTV, nothing, same for DVD->Mayflash->Lilliput
That's probably because it's all PAL and the Mayflash only supports 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p and no 576p.

But back to the point...

"1080i/50Hz has a horizontal scan frequency of 28.1kHz, while 1080i/60Hz has a horizontal scan frequency of 33.6kHz"

Monitors usually don't support HF of below 30/31kHz
Maybe all the problems are only due to the PAL frequency?

That's one thing I haven't tried, using it on different displays at home. The only one I needed it for was the Lilliput.

What's your HV20 output set at? 1080i? That's the only mode that works with my Mayflash > Lilliput setup. 720p doesn't work via Mayflash, which is fine anyway for me.

[XFR]

Yep, 1080i, it's also possible to select 576i but the Mayflash doesn't support that mode, and the Lilliput doesn't like that one either.
But I've hooked up my Lilliput again to my computer and trying different resolution right now (with different refresh rates, expert mode)

[Kholi]

Have you had any luck with your PC outputting different resolutions? I got it to work with a whole gaggle from OSX.

[Zak Forsman]

hi there. i'm back. okay... with the MAYFLASH i get identical results from the HVX200, HV20 and the component out on my Kona 3 brealout box on a final cut pro bay. there is, well, what you can see in the pics below.

http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/3789/photoek6.jpg
this is the output from my Kona card. that's why you see a matted image. along the bottom you can see the "tear".

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3306/photo1iv6.jpg
here i'm outputting bars to the Lilliput. makes it clearer that what the "tear" is, is actually an offset doubling of the image. not like the vDIGI transcoder though. this is much more faint.

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/444/photo2fr9.jpg
close up of problem.

and the odd thing is, that if the Lilliput's video input toggle is set to "PC" when the unit is turned on, i get a double image. however, if I set the unit to Video 1 or Video 2, shut it off, turn it back on, then toggle the input from Video 1 or 2 to PC, I get a much more stable image. but one that still is not perfect (as seen in the photos).

i should add that i get this on both Lilliputs and with both MAYFLASH transcoders and with three different cources (HVX, HV20, Kona card).

[Kholi]

That's crazy-weird. How can I replicate that tear on my LCD? I'd like to see if I've just been blind to it or it's not there!

[imageworx]

Thanks for the info ZAK,I had ordered a mayflash and it came in last night. I hooked it up and the image looks great. I'm not getting any ghosting that I can see, but I have no color bars to work with as the HV20 can't generate any. Maybe I'm blind too :)

[XFR]

Thanks for the info ZAK,I had ordered a mayflash and it came in last night. I hooked it up and the image looks great. I'm not getting any ghosting that I can see, but I have no color bars to work with as the HV20 can't generate any. Maybe I'm blind too :)
I guess you have an NTSC HV20? Are you running it in 1080i component out?

Still no luck with my PAL HV20 :huh: My guess is it's the 50hz (PAL) 1080i signal which uses a lower horizontal frequency than the 60hz (NTSC) version and the Lilliput just can't display it...

[XFR]

Hmmz, I checked it with my other HDTV downstairs and the combo works without a problem on that one. So there's nothing wrong with the Mayflash. I'll try to get the specs of that HDTV...

[imageworx]

Yeah, I'm 1080i NTSC

[bwest]

Good news for me
I still waiting for my s-video adapter to come by mail, but out of curiosity and a little free time, I decided to hook up my RCA component cables to the lilliput and dvx and presto, I got a beautiful signal.
From the RCA out, I have better resolution and can see better than I can on my 14” Advent TV [that I’ve been known to drag around]. That may not say much for the TV, but 14” vs 7” wow. Better than both lcd and view-finder on the dvx as well. Cant wait for my SGPro adapter now!

[Kholi]

I told you, Bwest! The RCA looks very nice and is probably more-than-good enough for SD.

On the tearing with the Mayflash, I reconnected it last night and did bars to the screen from the HVX: no tearing at all. I will have my camera today to take pictures of it so you guys can see.

[Zak Forsman]

balls. maybe I should try the 629 series.

[Kholi]

I will take pictures today. I have a Black 629GL Non-Touchscreen. Maybe that's it?

[imageworx]

I've got a Black 619GL Non-Touchscreen. My image is not ghosted either.

[Kholi]

Actually... I think I have a 619GL as well. e_e; I can't remember! I'll check when I get home lol.

[USLatin]

Just a quick question... u guys are also planning on making the LCD's double as prompters? if so can you do it without a laptop possibly from a smart phone? :)

[Kholi]

Never thought about that! But they're a little small for that, right?

I am definitely going to get into a touchscreen setup w/Laptop, but never thought about Prompter.

[bwest]

Never thought about that! But they're a little small for that, right?


hahahahah maybe not ... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/257037-REG/Listec_T2009P_Teleprompter_T_2009P_LCD.html

they use mirrors to expand the print... nice price huh?

[USLatin]

yea you'd need the mirror anyways to get talents looking at the lens so I guess if you could expand it then it would be perfect!

hummm....

GET TO WORK ON IT! :tongue:

[bwest]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/386586-REG/Mirror_Image_LC150MP_LC_150MP_Prompter_LCD.html

[bwest]

any comments on this? for the 7" lilliput
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/396688-REG/Hoodman_H700P_H700P_Sun_Shield_Hood.html

seems to be a perfect fit... I measured out the Panasonic TC-7WMS1
anyone think of anything else for sun shade suggestions?

[Bob Hill]

By some Kydex, (thermally form able plastic) and make your own. You can bend it easily once heated and form fit it to your monitor. I'll post up pictures of the hoods that I have made later this evening.

Bob

[imageworx]

This the one I'll be using, and the price I feel is reasonable.

http://www.hoodmanusa.com/prodinfo.asp?number=H%2D700

[bwest]

This the one I'll be using, and the price I feel is reasonable.

http://www.hoodmanusa.com/prodinfo.asp?number=H%2D700


I had one of those once... not the best sunshade in the world, Ive come to the conclusion longer and tapered would be much better

[siniarch]

I was shooting with my friend Matty_G and he has a marshal and bought that shade. it comes with velcro strips that glue to the monitor. so the monitor hood can be put on and removed with ease. Unfortunately, the strips' glue is weaker than the velcro, and they fall off after some use. I was definitely disappointed with it.

[bwest]

sinarch, which shade are you refering to? Though they both be from the same company... Hoodman. I'm reluctant to go back to them but that tapered shade looks to be and improvement over the other... which I currently have. Better glue shouldnt be a problem to find

[siniarch]

not sure of the model, but its the one that doesn't taper. not sure how to glue the velcro to the monitor so it sticks. I guess a double sided tape sort of thing but then the velcro would be sticking out even more. who knows.

[bwest]

FYI: HomeDepot sells Industrial strength Velcro...that stuff is super strong [glues itself]
and expensive.

comes in little/med sized white box...I also use it all the time and have it here now

[bwest]

By some Kydex, (thermally form able plastic) and make your own. You can bend it easily once heated and form fit it to your monitor. I'll post up pictures of the hoods that I have made later this evening.

Bob

That I'd like to see, also how to create with it..for us fellow DIY types
sounds very cool!

[William_Robinette]

Would someone mind posting a link to exactly what Noga arm you are using with your Lilliput for upside-down mounting on a DVX/HVX?

Most appreciated.

[bwest]

I got this for a different project...works great on my lilliput

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/352084-REG/Noga_MG11043TA_MG1104TA_Articulated_Arm.html

buy the shoe mount too!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/352085-REG/Noga_LPSLDSHOE14_LP_SLDSHOE_Slide_Shoe_Male.html

[bwest]

oops double post

[Bob Hill]

Hi all,

Here are a couple of pics of the first hood I made for my camera stabilizer monitor. The newer one uses fabric at the bends so it can be folded flat when I take it off. I'll take a couple of up to date pictures of that one and the monitor hood I use for the shoulder mount since they are a bit different and post later. BTW, total cost for one was around $5.

Bob

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/14894/1186635096.jpg
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/14894/1186635285.jpg

[imageworx]

Where can I purchase this Kydex??

[Bob Hill]

Imageworx,

Here is a link to Laird Plastics website location index. They carry Kydex in a variety of colors and thicknesses.

http://www.lairdplastics.com/content/section/4/39/

Bob

[William_Robinette]

How long as you are you all getting out of these MP3300 batts running just the LCD monitor?

[Kholi]

The VGA converter won't kill a battery for hours. In fact, I went shooting from 8 - 8, never turned off the MP3300's (Have to unplug them) and didn't have to charge.

The LCD monitor will kill one a bit faster at 14volts. I haven't really measured, but again, I haven't had to charge during a day of shooting.

Mounting is the main issue with the MP3300's. I am going to try to get a smaller 6v battery for the MayFlash to strap onto the screen and just use the MP3300's to power the monitor.

[bwest]

hahahah I strapped on an auto booster, small size with two cigarette ports, into a back-pack today. One power supply ran my camera and the other my lilliput. I got power forever. Hey, I discovered the sun didnt prevent me from viewing the lcd, I could still focus, though Bobs screen wouldnt hurt.

[William_Robinette]

Thanks a bunch Kholi.

[Bob Hill]

Kholi,

I still think mounting a small DCtoDC converter on the Mayflash and suppling it with 12VDC so you only need one battery is the way to go. Here is a link to one that should work.

http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1674

They are pretty small and could be mounted right to the Mayflash.

[moe52]

Tried the set up with the 619GL non touch screen and the Mayflash on my XHA1 and got ghosting on the preview..

[Kholi]

Bob, I'd do that? But, I have NO IDEA what I'm doing. LoL.

Moe -- What's the ghosting look like? I'm just not finding those issues with my screen. only things that suck are not being able to feed 720 signal out or 480. Although, for 480 it's as easy as feeding it Composite so.

[Bob Hill]

I'll see about writing up a guide. I'll just have to order a couple of the converters.

[Bob Hill]

Well I think I have finally gotten my shoulder mount exactly the way that I want it

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/14894/1187215109.jpg

It comes in a a svelte 30lbs (without the car battery and inverter) and is difficult to get through doorways but I can sure see what I am trying to focus on ;)

[William_Robinette]

That's ridiculous...






ridiculously awesome!

[Kholi]

Whoa wtf. LOL. That monitor is MASSIVE!

Does that not hurt your shoulder?

[Bob Hill]

It helps that I am something of a knuckle dragger. Could you imagine showing up to a gig with that monster though :)

[USLatin]

HAHAHAHAH ROFL!!!

u r grinnig I u were messing... hahaaha... I would have belived it only if u had actually mounted the car battery... that gave it away

[Bob Hill]

I did have a lot of trouble keeping a straight face when we took the picture.

[USLatin]

nice one dude... u made me laugh, thanks!

[Ian-T]

My stomach hurts.....lol

[USLatin]

hey!!! how about mounting a projector! that way you can also let everyone else on set see it! Just have to watch out for the angle so it doesn't project onto the shot itself.... just a thought Bob... you look like you could muscle that

[Kholi]

^ Lol

[Bob Hill]

I hope my wife doesn't see this, she'll have me mounting our projector next.

[Solomon Chase]

LOL

What size is that monitor? 20"? 24"?

[Bob Hill]

It is a 20". It is one we use as a field monitor/computer monitor.

[bwest]

hey Bob

your in luck... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/396695-REG/Hoodman_HD20_HD20_Hoodman_Sun_Shield.html

[USLatin]

hahahaha now mount that hood on and go do a hand held run down long sets of stairs with multiple background crossings, and watch out for the boom-op's cables!!! heheeh

that thing looks like it would pop ur eye out... ahd he'd have to pull his head back like a foot hahahaha...

but you'll see everything clear so it is all good :thumbsup:

[Bob Hill]

bwest,

I don't think my arms are long enough lol.

[bwest]

add this and your all set http://www.med-worldwide.com/page118.html

[USLatin]

^ HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH ^

now Bob, please don't take it personal... this is hilarious, thanks fomr making me laugh guys

BTW: $7.25!? great deal... I'm getting one... it will add to the pro-look

[Bob Hill]

Only if it comes in black.

[shiny4]

any suggestion for diy monitor for pal land??
i know that mayflash doesn't work whit pal signal.
any suggestion ?
i want to use the new xenarc 7"lcd.
about the component to vga adapter i have seen this one that is very cheap:http://www.xcm.cc/xcm_1080p_vga_box.htm.
i wait your suggestion.
best
ivan

[Bob Hill]

Shiny,

It looks like it might work but since it gets its power from the USB port you might have to make up an adapter to power it. If memory serves USB is a 5.5VDC power source.

Bob

[bwest]

hey Bob

can you make me a follow focus for my 35mm adapter?

[Bob Hill]

bwest,

I have been working on a follow focus that uses the same controls as the standard HVX but I am not close to having something ready for primetime.

[USLatin]

hey Bob I really like your tool





hahahaha... sorry I had to say that :thumbsup:

[zcream]

Did anyone think of using a Slate-type tablet PC or a PDA or portable internet appliance with S-video in as a display ?
Just wondering if someone researched this ?