View Full Version : Bolex H8??
Does the H8 only shoot 8mm or does it also shoot Super8 as well?
07-09-2007, 08:56 AM
There are a number of H8's out there, from Standard to Deluxe to Reflex. None of them shoot Super8.
Are you in the market for one?
Oh okay. Yea I might get a Super8 or 8mm rather than a 16.
The stocks for 16 are beginning to seem a little out of budget for me... even for short films, so I'm looking around at Super8 or 8mm...
So 8mm would look closer to 16mm than Super8 right? Since the film is 16mm, just spliced into 2.
I think I might go with an 8mm camera, but I've heard it's harder to find stocks and get them processed/telecine... so I'm debating whether it's gonna be Super8 or standard.
If you have any advice, I'd really appreciate it... Thanks
ALSO, What is the difference between a Reflex and a Delux or a Standard?
07-09-2007, 01:00 PM
1 - The image area of a super8 frame is actually larger than the regular8 frame. The problem is that a lot of consumer super8 cameras have registration problems so you end up getting a shaky image with brightness constantly changing. That is also true for consumer 8mm cameras, but H-8s, which are the cadillacs of 8mm film, are cheaper to buy than high-end Super8 cameras. It's debatable which looks closer to 16mm. I find the footage shot on H-8 looking closer to 16mm, and the excellent engineering is probably to thank.
2 - Check out all the regular8 labs (there really aren't that many; refer to http://standard8.org/ ) and budget out all your options (super8 vs. regular8 vs. 16). Consider things like wait time (from getting film to getting it processed to scanning/telecine), shipping costs, processing and telecine costs. Also consider the fact that there are no negative stocks available in regular8. Generally, if you live in the right city, you can get 16mm and super8 stock within a few days if you have a Kodak warehouse in the area. Regular 8mm film you will probably have to get shipped to you unless you live in Cal.
3 - The major difference among the H-8 models is in the viewfinder. Both on the H8 Standard and Deluxe the viewfinder is not reflex, which means that you have two separate devices for focusing and composing the frame. This is a tad hard to grasp unless you actually play with a Bolex, so let me explain.
A reflex viewfinder basically means that what you see in the finder is exactly what's recorded on film - you are essentially looking through the lens of the camera and can adjust focusing "on the fly". With the pre-reflex H-8s the viewfinder however, as you can see on the pictures (http://www.bolexcollector.com/accessories/view50.html#1), is a separate device. You also have a separate 'viewfinder' for focusing. When you want to shoot, you rotate the lens tourette to align the lens you want to use with the focusing viewfinder. At this point the image from the lens is projected onto a small ground glass and magnified through the focuser, which means that you are looking through the lens. The lens itself, however, is not aligned with the film gate, so if you were to start shooting now, you would not be using the correct lens. Once you're done focusing, you rotate the tourette back so that the lens you just focused is aligned with the film gate. Then, you look into the actual viewfinder and start shooting.
It sounds lengthy, but is quite easy to get used to. The only drawback of this setup is not being able to easily adjust focus on the fly. It also means that when you're shooting up close and do not adjust for it, there might be a slight horizontal parallax error (vertical parallax is eliminated as the viewfinder is on the same level as the film gate). However, the 8mm gauge is so small that, unless you are shooting under very low light conditions, your depth of field will be quite high anyway, which means that you probably don't have to worry about precise focusing to begin with.
4 - I have a Bolex H8 Deluxe which I think I'd like to sell :). I got it off eBay for $180 with just about anything you can imagine: the unit, the handcrank, the handle, the lens hood, a few lenses (standard and wide angle), original manual, original accessories catalogue (teardrop) and some other stuff. I also bought two Yashinon lenses for it, a standard and a telephoto, both opening up to f1.4. I have a junk roll of film to practice loading on, plus a new, I believe, non-expired roll of Ektachrome 100D in the fridge. I've shot some black and white footage on it, but haven't got it processed yet. I'm selling it because I bought a Krasnogorsk-3 camera which I have a Ton of lenses for, plus it's Russian, so it's like saving a komrad.
Hope that helped, and let me know if you're interested or have any other questions.
07-09-2007, 01:10 PM
Here is a picture I took on Ilford Pan-F ISO50 film:
Wow!! You are a LIFESAVER! Seriously, Thank you thank you thank you!!! That helped SOO Much!!
I recently won a bid on a K-3 on ebay, but then canceled it when I looked at the prices of film stock/processing/telecine (AHHH!!!)
Isn't it a few hundred dollars to shoot a 10 minute film on 16mm? (Wayyy too much for me)
Okay, thanks soooo much man! I've learned a lot, and I will keep researching and find what's right for me.
Also, I've heard you can process Super8 film at Wal-Mart, but not 8mm... the convience of doing that would be great... but I really want a H8!
Are there any Super8 cameras you would suggest? I think the Beaulieu 4008 is wonderful that the frame rate goes up to 70fps!! SLOW-MO!!! :)
Anyways, thanks again, you have been loads of help!
All the best,
07-09-2007, 01:34 PM
16mm.. Hmm.. The stock is pricier, but around here I can get processing for .14 a foot, essentially making it less than the cost of processing 8mm and without needing to ship it off anywhere. Telecine is comparable to 8mm as well, so the only price difference is the stock. However, if you shop around on CraigsList, eBay, and ask around, you should be able to get shortends and expired stock for cheap. The Tape Superstore is selling shortends at .19 a foot which makes it 19 bucks per 100ft, not a huge lot more expensive than 8mm (you can find 8mm for around $14 per 25ft). The K-3 cost me $200 with all the cool accessories and the decent zoom lens, so basically I can move up to 16mm at a fairly small price.
As to super8 cameras, there are so many out there it's ridiculous. The good ones are Beaulieus, plus things like Canon 1014 and Nizo's. I don't remember all of them, but basically if it does more than 24fps and has a good lens, you should be set. A super8 geek from around here should be able to chime in and suggest a good axe.
Oh, one more thing - the H8 is basically a modified H16, which means it can take in 100ft reels of 8mm film giving you a runtime of close to 11 mins, just like with 400' mags for 16mm or 1000' for 35. Something to consider as well.
P.S. If assuming the regular 10:1 shooting ratio, it's far more than a few hundred dollars to shoot a 10 minute 16mm film :). Make sure to get a dayjob or marry someone rich.
Wow... that's a good deal for the processing... where do you live? I don't imagine they have a 16mm processing place in Utah? :) lol.. probably NOT ... :(
Oh... by the way, I recently bid on a K-3 but unfortunately lost by $10 within the last 3 seconds :( AHHH!!! but it was a K-3 in mint cond. with the lens, extras, etc... BUT.. it also included 600 Feet of Kodak Vision2 250T, 100, and 500 film...
All of this for $160 with $40 shipping... I WAS SOOO MAD I LOST!!! My final bid was $147.99 or something and the dudes was like $159... GRRR!!
That would've been a great deal. Oh well...
Anyways thanks for the help and info.. I might look around some more.
07-09-2007, 02:07 PM
Yeah, you generally want to bid around $200 or so on K-3. If it's a good deal, don't be cheap :).
And I'm in Vancouver, Canada.
Haha... you know what's funny? I just bought another K-3 online... this time I won't cancel it.. haha.
You got me insterested in it again because I found a great 16mm film website that sells recans for cheap... about the same as Super8 film stock.
So thanks for all the info...
Ohh... does the K-3 have a reflex viewfinder? Or is it a separate unit? (Do I have to have a light meter, or can I expose from just looking from the viewfinder?)
07-10-2007, 09:00 PM
Hah. Congratulations. Now find a lab.
As to the K-3, yes, it is a reflex viewfinder. It doesn't however mean that it allows you to get by without a light meter. Being able to look through the lens and see the image exactly like it will show up on film has little to do with exposing correctly. It is possible to train your eye meter, but it is far easier, if not necessary, to just get a light meter. With the prices of stocks and processing, you don't want to shoot your film and find out you are undrexposed by 3 stops and there is nothing that can be done.
There is a meter built into the camera, but it is known to be inaccurate at times, so I would suggest picking up a small light meter off eBay (or a fancier one if you have money to spend). Old Sekonic's from the 70s and 80s can be had for cheap. Heck, I got a great one with a still and movie scales for free at a photo convention. The best meter to get would be the one that can do incident readings; one of those meters that have a roud semi-sphere on top. You basically stick that meter in front of your subject, and it will give you the correct exposure settings.
What's the stock website by the way? The Tape Superstore?
07-10-2007, 09:06 PM
A piece of advice - if you're fairly new to film, pick up a still film camera (make sure to save up the whopping $0.99 or less they start at on garage sales), some slide stock, and books on photography. The principals behind the equipment and making proper exposures are exactly the same with the only exception of movie cameras having a built-in mechanism that advances the film 24 frames per second.
Slide film stocks are quite unforgiving in terms of exposure as there is less lattitude. In other words, if you screw up, there is very little room to fix mistakes - an under or overexposed shots will most likely not be recoverable. It will quickly teach you how to make correct exposures. Negative stocks, of course, offer a bit more leeway, but it's easier to transition from slides to negatives than the other way around. It's fun too.
Thanks for the info and tips... how exactly do you use an old Sekonic light meter? If it doesn't have the sphere, it's not automatic? So how exactly would you use it to light your scene correctly?
I definitely don't want to spend all that money on film/processing to realize the film was underexposed... so thanks for that tip... I'll definitely get a cheap light meter.
Also, do you know if they make matte boxes for the Krasnogorsk?
Thanks a TON!
07-11-2007, 12:20 AM
They make matte boxes alright. Why on earth would you need one though? Just use the plastic lens hood that comes with the K-3.
As to metering - do get some photography books :). To sum up what should be a good chapter in one of those books, a non-incident, ie. reflective meter, works by you pointing it at the subject and reading the light reflected off the subject. There is more room for error here than when using incident meters since you are reading the reflected light and not the light falling on the subject, but a workaround is to get a 18% grey card from a photo store and have your subject hold it so you can take a reading. Most meters are calibrated to 18% grey, and as another reference, most white skin is one stop brighter than the 18% grey. Such a reading will be identical to that of an incident meter.
Wonderful. I'm not sure if mine will come with a lens hood... can you name any matte boxes off just in case? Thanks man.
And thanks for the help about the light meters... Do youknow of any good photography books that will help me with more of this?
And the loading of the film is a LITTLE (psssh... understatement) confusing. It's just the fact that this is my first time working with film, so I have no clue when it comes to loading the beast.
Also, in the manual of the K-3 I was reading online it says after you load the film, "run the film for a few seconds" so the film can roll through properly. Is this recording (filming) when you "run" the film?
And the trigger is for filming right? (lol... just making sure)
So after you load the film and you want to "run it through" for a few seconds, you press the trigger?
By the way... any regular old 35mm still film camera will use slide film right? EX: A Pentax? Or do you have to buy a camera made for slide film? (I'm new to any sort of film... as you can see I come from a digital background.)
Thanks SO MUCH man!
07-11-2007, 10:20 AM
1 - the lens hood is one of the standard K-3 accessories, so if you're getting the complete original kit. I am not aware of very many matte boxes for K-3's, I think you might have to go the DIY way. The zoom that comes with the camera is pretty big so in the worst case scenario you can always make a cone out of thin cardboard, wrap it around, and tape to the lens with gaffer or masking tape
2 - Just about any photography book should do. For lighting, I really like "Light: Science and Magic" written for photography courses in UK. Very well-written, has good exercises, and explains the zone system which is of great help. There is also a good cinematography book (http://www.amazon.com/Cinematography-Making-Cinematographers-Directors-Videographers/dp/0240805003/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/102-3402874-6397716?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184173190&sr=8-2) I'm reading right now which explains meters and the zone system, but I feel that it will probably be harder to understand what they talk about without any previous knowledge.
3 - Loading the film seems convoluted when you read the manual, but is quite easy in practice. You basically trim the end making sure you make the cut where the sprocket hole(s) is, wind the camera up, set it to 8fps, and feed through. If everything is okay, it will feed itself through properly without you needing to do anything. Oftentimes it doesn't, but it's quite easy to fix - you just pull two pins of the mechanism up and sit the film in properly. Then run it for a little bit to make sure it runs okay and that the gate doesn't move around like it will if the pulldown claw isn't engaging properly. If none of this is making much sense, you'll figure it out as soon as you get the cam. It's not hard at all. A lot of people complain cause they've never loaded up film cameras. It's not much harder than loading up a reel-to-reel tape machine
4 - Yes, any 35mm camera will do. 35mm film is the most widely available camera film which is still sold at department stores and such. It can also be processed almost anywhere. You can get black and white, negative, and positive slide stocks. Negative is positive is your choice, but slides usually offer greater saturation and don't require prints whereas negatives you either have to scan or get prints done from.
5 - As to the camera choice, it doesn't really matter. I happened to have a Russian Zenit and a Pentax Spotmatic SLRs, both of which accept the same M42 lenses that the K-3 does. You can do the same and get some Pentax cameras. Just make sure they have a thread and not a bayonet mount. Something like SP500 should do.
Thanks again... you have outdone yourself!
What about this matte box? (Do you know what it is?) This is a K-3 by the way.
(Does anyone know what tripod is in pic10?)
So there's gotta be a matte box for a Krasnogorsk out there... I just have to figure out which one it was. Any ideas?
Do you know what size in mm the lens is? I could just try to find a matte box that connects to that size. (For EX: XL2 and DVX = 72mm lens)
Also, what are some good, cheap tripods (used is okay) that will work well with the Krasnogorsk? I want something that is really cheap but can still work well.
Is there a special plate you have to buy to put it on a tripod, or does it screw in regularly?
07-11-2007, 01:16 PM
I've seen that mattebox and I don't know what it is. I have seen other ones out there, but I have not at all researched the topic as it's the last thing I'm worried about at the moment for my own projects. The zoom lens filter thread on the K-3 is 77mm I believe, and usually 49mm on screwmount Pentax lenses.
As to the tripods, there are so many out there. I am actually on the lookout for a good one myself. If you don't find what you like just buy the best one in a local Best Buy, shoot your film, and then return it :).
Haha... Best Buy tripods... :) Nice...
So you mean the lens size is 77mm but you can use 49mm Pentax lenses?
If so.. that's cool.
Would you be able to use this on a Krasnogorsk?
Anywho.. thanks for all the info, and if I have any more questions, I know who to ask. You're the MAN!
07-11-2007, 01:39 PM
Oh no, 77mm is the diameter of the thread at the end of the lens where you screw filters on. The actual M42 lens mount is 42mm.
And yeah, that accessory should work fine with K-3 since the Krasnogorsk has a standard tripod mount.
Well isn't that fantabuluous! So any 42mm lenses will work?
07-11-2007, 01:49 PM
Yeah. Just ask for Pentax screwmount glass. Or if they don't know bring along a ruler.
:) Awesome.. because I just found a 135mm 42 screwmount on ebay for like 15 bucks.
So that's pretty sweet. I really want a Bogen tripod but I just spend my money on the Krasnogorsk .. darn.. I don't imagine you know of any good tripods under $100?
Hehe... okay thanks again.
07-11-2007, 02:45 PM
Best Buy tripods? :)
Also, why would you need a 135mm? It is quite a telephoto. The normal lens for 16mm is 25mm, so this lens will be like a 270mm for a 35mm camera.
lol... extreme close-ups? I wasn't plan on buying it... I was simply expressing my happiness that it is an interchangeable lens system on the camera!!
Hmm.. I'll have to look around some more for tripods, and if you find any good ones within $100, let me know!
It's so funny how fast you made me switch from Super 8/8mm to 16mm... (Actually it's even more funny that I purchased the K-3, canceled it.. wanted a Super8 camera, then I just repurchased the K-3)
Thanks for getting me back into it... I don't think I would be as happy with a 8mm camera.. so cheers :beer:
07-11-2007, 03:02 PM
Heh. No problem. Hope the Russian tank meets your expectations :).
Oh I'm sure it will!! I've heard it called a tank several times from various people... so it's pretty rugged? How do all the mechanical parts hold up?
Also.. does it take Fuji 16mm film? I know it takes Kodak, but how about Fuji?
I want to buy Fuji 16mm 250D.. would this work?
07-11-2007, 03:57 PM
Do you work out regularly? If you don't you will be as long as you use this baby. And I wouldn't be too scared to drop it. Or have a truck drive over it.
As to film, all 16mm film is the same sprocket holoe wise. Fuji or Kodak is fine.
07-11-2007, 04:26 PM
so i take it that its very very heavy?
07-11-2007, 04:28 PM
It's not that heavy, about 3.2 kg with the zoom.
Like I said, it depends on whether you work out or not.
07-11-2007, 04:57 PM
And yeah, that accessory should work fine with K-3 since the Krasnogorsk has a standard tripod mount.
Just a quick note, the K3 has a 3/8" tripod mount, whereas most consumer tripods are 1/4". You'll need little adapter to use it with a normal tripod plate... unless you have a more expensive tripod that allows you to swap out the pins with a 3/8" one. They're available from B&H Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/5596-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_3367_1_4_20_to_3_8_Adapter.html)fo r $5 or so.
Awesome thanks for the headsup Karl...
Or have a truck drive over it.
HAHAHA!!! That's funny!
Thanks everyone who posted.
Hey.. what would happen if I just bought some cheap worklights and used it to light some indoor shots with Fuji 250D (or T)....
Would the light come out okay?
Also.. when you buy 400' rolls, how would you use it (if you can) on a K-3 that only accepts 100' spools? Do the 400' rolls come on 4 100' spools or is it just a 400' roll?
07-12-2007, 08:48 PM
Well, if you didnt use them as directly harsh light on your subject, they should be ok. (Try bouncing it off a nearby white wall, or shoot the light through a stretched white bedsheet a few feet away from the lights.
Beware however: Cheap worklights often come standard with 3000K bulbs, as opposed to the standard 3200K bulbs. This will result in a slightly more warm color tone to the film. And, if you were to use the worklights you would want 250T (T is for tungsten, D is for daylight.)
When you get a 400' roll of film, it comes on a 400' core usually (sometimes you can find daylight rolls with the "safety metal" all the way over the reel). You would probably have a difficult time splitting that 400' up into 100' reels... since you'd be doing it in complete dark. You're stuck with 100' reels with the K3, but that's not such a bad thing... is it? =)
07-13-2007, 09:53 AM
You're stuck with 100' reels with the K3, but that's not such a bad thing... is it? =)
Nope, it's not. It forces you to pre-plan more.
Thanks for the advice! Can you buy 3200k bulbs at a regular home improvement store, or do you have to buy them online?
I found some 250D (recan I think) for $16, but I'm having trouble finding 250T for cheap... does anyone know of a good place that sells tungsten film cheap? (16mm of course!) Thanks!
07-14-2007, 10:07 AM
Also local CraigsList and film production companies might have recans available.
$33 for 250T at the tape superstore... Oh my freak! That's quite expensive!! I'm trying to find 16mm Tungsten film for under 20 bucks... any ideas? Or am I outta my mind?
Also.. what's the who is a short end? (And a med/long end?)
And I'm still waiting on a response for that 3200k bulb problem :) Where do you buy a 3200k tungsten bulb from?
Okay.. what happens when you mix lighting when shooting on tungsten film? (If you don't use 3200 kelvin).
I want to buy some lights, but I don't want to wait for 3200k lights to be shipped... is there any way around this? How bad will it look if I don't use 3200k lights?
07-14-2007, 02:45 PM
Dude, the short-ends for 200T stock are at .19 a foot. That's nineteen dollars per a 100 footer. I don't think it gets any less expensive than this unless you go for expired stock.
Short ends are just what's left after you shoot a roll but don't use all the film on there. Say you shoot a single 2 minute take on a roll of 100'. You end up with 45 seconds of film left on that reel. All the other shots in your Kubrick-influenced film are at least 1 minute long, so you really don't have a use for these 45 seconds. Over time, you will have a bunch of those left overs. That's what shortends are. These guys are buying them off production companies in bulk and reselling them.
As to the lights, like Carleton mentioned, if you use anything under 3200K, the colour balance will be off to the red/orange side of the spectrum. That may or may not be the look you're after. 3200K bulbs you should be able to buy online or at any local photo or video store. They're far from a specialty item.
07-14-2007, 02:52 PM
A lot of the questions you've asked so far are covered in any good photography book. Film is film, the main idea is exactly the same for still photography with only slight changes here and there. And if you're in too much of a rush to get this going, then you must either be rich or not shooting film at all. Film on a budget is about nothing but waiting around.
Oh.. thanks Dmitry.. I didn't notice the .19 one. I only saw the .33 film stock. That will definitely work! And I'm not necessarily trying to rush, but I am excited and asking a whole lot of questions because I can get answers from extremely smart people on here. I will definitely get some photography books though. Thanks again for all your advice, and to everyone else who has helped answer questions too. Cheers to you guys! Thanks ALOT! Colin
Dmitry... can you give me a link? I didn't see the 200T film stock?
07-14-2007, 11:31 PM
Have fun with film! You certainly will :).
Oh I know I will!! Thanks man!
But I still haven't found the 200T on The Tape Superstore's website... do you have to call them?
If you have the link to it, that would be great! Thanks!
07-15-2007, 11:37 AM
Right on their film page :)
Okay.. I found the link.. it's a short end. So how much film does a short end have left? Does it differ?
Also.. what are some good (CHEAP) cases for the K-3? Or bags?
07-15-2007, 12:32 PM
1 - You will get as much as you pay for. For 19 bucks you'll get a 100 feet. For 38 you will get 200. Etcetera :).
2 - If you're buying the original K-3 kit, it will come with a case. It does remind me of the Russian military gear cases though, which it is since the Krasnogorsk factory was indeed a military factory. The bag therefore is kind of bulky and heavy, so I just use my backpack with a few pieces of thick foam I stole from work.
Film is pricey, so for low-budget film go DIY where you can. I mean, seriously, a K-3 matte box? A good one will cost you as much as a sync-sound Beaulieu. Think twice before you buy the unnecessary crap that doesn't make you a better film maker.
How dare you call a matte box 'unnecessary crap'... lol jk! :)
Anyways, if it's a short end (the end of film that wasn't used) How is it 100'? Was it a short end from a 400'?
Thanks Dmirty! You're the man!
Also... do you load in a short end the same way you load a regular stock in on a K-3?
(Simple question, but I gotta double check!)
07-15-2007, 09:37 PM
I'm pretty sure they put the short ends together on whatever rolls you tell them. I am not sure, haven't dealt with the tape superstore in particular. The fact that you can order any number of feet tells me you should be able to pick the reel size. Which also means it is no different when it comes to loading short ends or new stock into the K-3.
I.e. it's more fun and exciting than air hockey.
More exciting than air hockey?
How about more exciting than a meteor that fell out of the sky and tipped over a purple-colored cow that is chewing on a piece of 100 year old cardboard made in a backwoods factory in Michigan???
Hmm? Is it more exciting than that?
But anyways.. thanks for all the help. Now I have to worry about finding a processing lab for my beast and a telecine lab too.... ahhh... film is a nightmare, err.. a sorta beautiful, wonderful nightmare.
07-16-2007, 08:14 PM
Went to pick up my test roll of film today. The 14 cents a foot place. They wanted to charge me 40 bucks. Someone screwed up and they wanted to charge me for reversal colour processing which is .40 a foot. And they didn't take anything but cash. I'm taking my next roll to the .16 a foot place (Technicolor). I have to learn not to be too cheap.
07-16-2007, 08:20 PM
I scanned a few frames out of the first roll at 16bit per channel, 4800dpi, just to play around with colour correction. The stock was Vision2 50D. I definitely am staying away from video now:
Holy!!! That is beautiful! Screw video... you COULDN'T get the feel of film if you had a DVX with an M2.. only film feels like film (sorry DVX users... it's just aint gonna happen)
That is amazing footage... you convinced me big 'ol time. Thanks! :) How did you scan it? Did you just literally take the negative and scan it with a regular scanner? If so, couldn't you scan each frame to make a cheap 'telecine' ... psshh.. that would take 329 hours to scan and then you would have to crop out the edges in photoshop and then save each image and set them into a timeline in an editing program. I'll pass... But there aren't any processing/telecine places down here in Utah, so I will have to have the footage shipped... (and pay the shipping costs :( ) which is kinda risky.. hopefully the film will be okay.
Also, this is some good footage below... I think it was shot on an Arriflex BL, but it looks really nice!
Pretty nice footage that guy's got there.
Anyways.. thanks again.
07-17-2007, 11:45 AM
1 - it's debatable whether you can get a similar image with video, but for sure you can't get the same colour depth and lattitude. This was exposed fairly well, but if I screwed up I could still recover the image quite easily. I really liked the picture too, and I really liked the fact that my experience with still film transfered directly here. Once you have worked with negatives on still cameras, it's the same deal with motion pictures. Personally I'm fascinated by colour and experimentation with it, and I like the flexibility film gives for that.
2 - this was the first time I shot 16mm. Before sending it off for telecine, I scanned a few frames just to play around with colour correction and to have a few reference plates to work off off when I get actual video back. I used my flatbed Epson with can scan transparencies.
3 - you answered your own question about DIY transfers. Yes, it'll take a long time and it's not worth it for the most part :).
07-18-2007, 04:12 AM
you film lovers may not like this but i paid the earth for professional telecineing 4no 400ft rolls and 2no 200 rolls of super 8 plus one 16mmroll,the super 8 a little i did four or so years back and the rest a relatives.i have to say making a film with bits of super 8 minidv svhs and vhs the super 8 was way less sharp than the mini dv and only level at best with the svhs.color wise the mini dv looks superior as well in most cases,the svhs was worse color than the film mostly,the 16mm looked good color wise but no better than my dv and was also hardly as sharp.
before everyone starts saying rubbish i am not talking about a standard transfer here,and the transfer firm say the film was way up to scratch.i am talking about mini dv not hdv.
07-18-2007, 08:16 AM
MiniDV - one. Two - how old were the rolls, and were they neg or reversal. And also what camera was used to shoot them with what glass.
I just can't picture you shooting home movies with Zeiss glass on an Arri 16S.
07-18-2007, 10:05 AM
mostly kodachrome 40 on the super 8 ,camera a canon [xl14 ]i think i know his camera had 6 times zoom,my camera was only a chinon zoom camera.regarding the 16mm do not know what film or camera.
i can say the transferred super 8 was better than any of the super 8 made dvd films i have.
07-18-2007, 10:44 AM
A proper telecine definitely contributes to the quality. However, you can't objectively judge a format like 16mm without knowing the quality of glass you were using. Just a thought.
Hey! I just got my Krasnogorsk fedex'd to my house.. when I first picked it up... HOLY JUNK.. that is going to wear out my arm holding up this beast! Heaviness! (Like you said earlier).
But.. when I look through the viewfinder, everything is yellowish/greenish tinted and I think it is dirty. (is the yellow tint normal?) Which part of the camera is dirty? It is not the actual diopter that is dirty, what and how do I clean it ? When I look through the viewfinder, I see little hairs and possibly (mildew?)... So how do I get the part of the camera to clean that?
And... how do I take off the lens? (I tried looking in the manual, but it said to unscrew it... I didn't see any screws tho..
ALSO, what f-stop would you usually shoot at outside on a SUNNY day? I turned on my light meter (but I think it's trashed) and it told me that it was underexposed at f-16... yea right.
07-18-2007, 04:05 PM
You need to work out bro. Operaing this camera is an equivalent of that though.
My K-3 is kind of yellowish when looking through the viewfinder too. It's normal. I would still use some Q-Tips and 99% isopropyl alcohol to clean the small mirrors inside. For that you want to remove the lens, and to do that just grab it and turn it counter-clockwise. A screwmount means that it just screws into the body, and isn't held by screws (heh, that would be convenient wouldn't it). Once you unscrew the lens you will see the rotating shutter. Wipe that clean, and then carefully look inside where the smaller mirrors are above the shutter. Wipe that too.
I have no idea what stock you're using to tell you what aperture you should use. And unless you're willing to waste good shots and film, do yourself a favour and get a working meter. The meter inside the K-3 is probably dead because the battery is drained/absent. Just get a standalone meter.
Hey.. thanks for the tips.. It's not tooooo heavy, but it is alot heavier than most camcorders :) Also, when rolling film through (pressing trigger) I CANNOT tell if anything is in focus... all I see is the flickering shutter. Is there a way of telling if stuff is in focus while shooting? Or is it just me?
Also, I just bought this little meter... will this work ?
$3 :) Nice eh?? I hope it'll work for what I need it for though.
07-18-2007, 04:55 PM
Looks okay but dude, you're making way too many impulsive purchases for someone who's not sure what he's buying.
Nah.. I was like 98% sure it would work. Just checking on that other 2%.. I knew that pretty much any Sekonic light meter would do the trick.
How do you send exposed film to a lab? (As far as what containers do you send it in?) And when they process film, do they print it on another roll of film? So if you filmed a 200' roll, would they take that and then print the negative on another roll of 200' film? So if you wanted to film a 200' film, you would have to buy 400' of film? Is that correct? Or am I crazy?
07-18-2007, 07:02 PM
You're crazy :).
READ SOME PHOTOGRAPHY BOOKS, man! :)
You'll read that film is a base coated with silver halide crystals that react when exposed to light. Then after blah blah and yadda yadda during the processing, you end up with negative film which is coated with 3 layers of dyes: cyan, magenta and yellow. Same roll, but now it's been processed. You can strike positive prints from that, but if you want to end up in digital, then might as well just get the negative film telecined.
As to the container, the film will come in a plastic box. Just stick the film back in there, seal it up using the provided seal (I stick another layer of non-transparent tape over that), get some envelopes or boxes from the post office, Staples or the recycling bin of the nearest office, wrap it up in bubblewrap or packing popcorn (not the edible kind), pack the box up, write "FILM - DO NOT X-RAY" on it in huge letters, and send it off. Tada.
Haha. Okay. No wonder... I filmed some junk (after struggling loading the film) and the film looked exactly the same after.. I get it now... base coated.. silver halide.. yada yada... okay. I got it!
But when I try to load my film (with loop formers) the perfs on the film get jacked up when I try to feed the film through the roll head and the sprocket... it gets jammed after 2 friggin seconds.
How do you friggin load this beast? I did it once, but I tried it again, and it just frustrated the junk out of me... PLEASE HELP!! This thing does NOT want to load... AHH!
07-18-2007, 09:56 PM
Did you read the manual thoroughly?
Wind it up, set the motor to 8 fps, feed the end of the film after trimming it while pressing the trigger, make sure the film loops properly and passes through the gate, and then out. If the gate starts moving up and down, take out the pressure plate, and make sure the claw is in one of the sprocket holes. Decrease the takeup loop if it isn't. Put the gate back and it should all be fine.
Loading it up is easy. Just.. quit being the impulsive little fiddler that you are, read the manual, and follow everything through slowly and correctly.
07-18-2007, 09:58 PM
By the way, I hope you didn't run the film through, and then look at it with lights on. The chemical changes in the film are not visible until you process the roll. Any subsequent exposure to the light will expose the film to light and you will obviously not get any image after processing.
Nevermind... I figured it out. And yes, I read the manual thoroughly and watched a few videos of people loading theirs.
The reason it wasn't working was the film was jamming in between th gate and the pressure plate.. And sometimes the film would get off track in between the first roll head and the sprocket. I spread the roll heads apart and made sure the film was being engaged, then re-ran the film through... and for the pressure plate problem, I took the plate off and made sure the hook was grabbing the perf on the film, then re-attached the plate.
And yes, I loaded the film in the light and opened the cover, exposing the film to unnecessary light because the guy I bought it from tossed in some extra film to practice loading.... but since I just figured out how to properly load it today, I had to cut off like 5 feet of film due to perf damage because it was jamming.. lol
But... I finally figured it out, and ran the same film (the practice film) through multiple times with no problems, and if there is a problem I now know how to fix it, so I am excited! I'm a pro loader! lol :thumbsup:
Oh, by the way, when loading the film into the camera, you want to get it as dark as you can to prevent from exposing it, right? So how do you do this outside.. can you use a black bag or something like that? I think so, right?
And (sorry for the triple post) but the part that is dirty on my camera isn't the shutter or the mirror above it... if you take of the viewfinder lens, and look straight back (probably 4-6 inches back) that mirror that is angled downward is dirty... I can't reach it with a q-tip (unless it is 5 inches long .. lol) so do you have any advice for cleaning that?
And... you keep mentioning that I need to read some photography books... I just looked, and I haven't found any that I really like and that mention all the questions I have asked you (that you said would be in a photography book).. but do you have any recommendations?? (I know you mentioned one before, but I couldn't find that one).
07-19-2007, 11:01 PM
Cleaning? Hmm.. A pencil with some cotton on the end? If you can squeeze it through the lens mount.
As to the books, check out your library's selection. That's where I get mine from :).
And for loading - you don't have to load in complete darkness. Just in the shadow is fine. If you do load in the darkness though, you will prevent the first and last few feet of film from exposure which is probably a good thing. A dark bag would be ideal.
Cool.. thanks. Why would the first and last feet of film NOT be exposed in dark? Does it do this in semi-dark areas or only completely dark?
And, a roll of 100' film was included in my package. Although, the film is itself is rolled...this is regular, right? I mean, the film doesn't already come on a spool? So do I have to unwrap the film and sit there winding it up around the spool? (which will take forever lol)
Too bad there is absolutely no way of hooking an external viewing device, ie, a monitor.. but now I am just dreaming...
07-21-2007, 10:07 AM
Don't quite see what you mean by film being already rolled.
When you buy film, it doesn't already come on a spool (at least mine didn't), so how do you take the film out of the package and load it onto a spool?
I cleaned that mirror behind the viewfinder but it didn't help at all. When I look through the viewfinder, everything looks hazy, blurry, and nothing is sharp. It is also very dark look through it, and it is hard to tell if anything's in focus. So, has anyone taken apart the camera, and put it back together? Because that is exactly what I have to do if I want to fix my viewfinder problem.
If anyone has taken apart the K-3, can you hit me up with some instructions? Because I don't want to take it apart then realize I can't put it back together.
In that video, it shows the "light" side of the film facing toward the gate and the "dark", glossy side of the film towards the back of the camera... This is how I've been loading it, but isn't the image exposed onto the dark side of the film? How is this possible if it is facing away from the gate?
Also, I have 2 plastic spools and 1 metal spools.. Which should I use while running film in the camera?
AND, when you're finished exposing the film, do you unravel the film off of the spool and stick it into the film container when you buy the film? How do you roll up the film into the container without using a spool? (I'm not sending them my spools...)
By the way, if you haven't got "Cinematography" by Kris Malkiewicz, get it!! I just bought that book, and it is AMAZINGLY helpful!! Within the first chapter, it's like WOHA!! It's really helpful!
Thanks in advice for the questions...
08-02-2007, 03:03 PM
Yo doodz. My K3 camera test has entered the adfest. Check it out.
I would say congratulations, but 1. you didn't answer my questions 2. I don't know what that is. Hah.
08-02-2007, 05:20 PM
I used the thread to plug my entry.
But, I can turn around and ask - why are you not embracing the DVXuser spirit and participating in the contest or at least watching the entries? There is a whole festival going on and you're ignoring it. What are you, not one of of us? Huh? Huh? Tsk tsk tsk.
As to the questions, the film that comes on cores has to be loaded in complete darkness (darkroom or lightproof bag) because you will expose the entire roll to light if you try to load it with any amount of light present.
The guy in the video is loading it up manually and in a proper manner so that the 'light' side is moving past the gate.
Good book you bought. Use metal spools. And send them the spools. You WANT to send them film on daylight spools. You're shooting film. It's no time to be a cheapass when it comes to your medium. It's like buying a $20K audio system and listening to 128kbit MP3s.
As to the books, grab a copy of the Camera Assistant's Manual. Will answer a lot of questions on cameras.
08-02-2007, 05:26 PM
Ad fest entry plug:
I'm plugging another DVXUser link so it makes it okay.
Woah woah woah.. calm down. I'm not ignoring anything. Just because I didn't know doesn't mean you have to treat me like crap. Dang... I only come on here every once and a while. So just calm down....
I appreciate you answering my questions, but man........
Great video by the way. Good luck on the contest.
Nice composition and lighting. D-M-I-T-R-Y GOOOO Dmitry!! :)
08-02-2007, 09:32 PM
I was joking heh.
Haha. Your K-3 footage turned out great man!! What film stock did you use?
Dmirty? Where did he go? Hmmm...
08-17-2007, 01:08 PM
I shot on 50D 7201 stock.
Cool stuff.... Standard Meteor Lens?