Need your advice on the future

[OnlineAthlete]

So here is the story:

I have about $2,500 saved up.

My options are:

Go DVX right now. I would be able to use it right away. Begin expanding my demo and possibly career. I use my education and experience to maximize the use of the equipment; but in 1-3 years it will be old news (or atleast that's what it seems like).

or

Go HVX on credit card or save up till have the money. I might have to wait, but I would be more invested in a medium that will probably give me more work in the future(?) and have more longevity. Essentially I believe I will have more opportunity with this equipment, though I will pay for it (but it could pay for itself).

Any suggestions?

(new to the forum, so you can initiate the new guy with many taunts)

[Jeff Anderson]

DVX - make some money with it and buy an hvx outright. I honestly think you could use the DVX for the next 5 years or more and have no problems. HD is a selling point, but good video is a bigger selling point. And with the DVX when you make money it will be yours and not yours to repay Panasonic with :)

Thats just me though. With the right job you could pay for the HVX on the first job.

[wgzn]

i agree. for the time being (2 to 5 years) there will still be work for a dvx. get it and get to work!

if you cant make enough money with a dvx in a years time to afford an hvx - you probably had no business with an hvx in the first place...

[BlackDogProDP]

This has been my experience:

I purchased a DVX about a year ago and have gotten some decent use out of it. It definitely has given me a few jobs that I wouldn't have had without it which has helped in developing my reel.

To that point now that I am involved in a production company that specializes in indie services I know the high demand of new HD equipment. With the HDTV transition date rapidly approaching, SD gear is becoming less and less popular.
Our HVX that we rent and use has been so profitable that we're going to purchase several of the new HPX cameras within the next few months. These cameras normally rent for around 6% of their value which will pay off your camera in no time.

If you're simply looking for a camera that will let you practice your skills as a cameraman with no real thought to using it to get work then the DVX will be a great camera for that and will probably retain a fair amount of its value over the next year. However if you're interested in a camera that will get you work allowing you to make better contacts and have higher quality production work then you need to invest in an HVX.


I feel that my investment in a DVX was worthwhile however now that HD is so accessible to the indie crowd it would be a good move to transition early rather than end up with a dated camera. Finally owning new popular gear gets you jobs in the indie community. It also makes people think of you as an asset even if in the beginning its only your camera.

[OnlineAthlete]

Thank you for responding!

To jdajda:

I see your point. The 5 year slow death of SD seems to be the temperature of the video world right now. I was curious to know what your bigger selling point for good video would be?


To wgzn:

I currently feel the way you diagnosed the situation. Which is why I am on the fence... but don't you feel people will just get tingly for the HD camera? Especially 2-5 years of SD leaves a 3 year window where I could get behind? But not really cuz if I am working enough I should be able to afford a HD in 2-5 years regardless.

To BlackDogProDP:

This has got me thinking.... what you say here is where I think I should be. But I want to make the wisest choice.

Thanks again!

[Jeff Anderson]

My selling point for good video was "good video". I'd much rather have professional looking quality SD than some hack with HD. So I guess my point is just produce good work with the SD and people will come back. So to me its not so much what you shoot with but how well you do it. That said, professional well produced HD is an even bigger selling point :)

[wgzn]

various good points here. if you are already a seasoned shooter then i might say go out on the limb and get the hvx as it will make a HUGE difference in the kind of work you can get - generally dvcprohd work goes for 50% or so more than SD

BUT, if youre new to the whole game, thats another story. thats a thin limb to crawl out on if you have no experience shooting... what if youre no good at it? just owning a camera doesnt make a person a shooter. and some folks just arent any good no matter how much they try.

on the upside, there is a good market for second hand hvxs. you can always sell it and only be out a few hundred bucks...

[Indywannabe]

Just curious...what are you going to do with it?

[Luis Caffesse]

While Indywannabe's post was short and to the point - it brings up a very valid point.

It all depends on where you are in your life/career.
Tell us some more about yourself, where you are and where you want to be - and that will help get some more focused advice. Otherwise, all you're getting is what OTHER people would do if they had your money right now - but that may not be what is right for you at this point.

How old are you?
How long have you been shooting?
Do you currently make money shooting or would this be the starting point for you?
What kind of clients do you currently have, and what kind do you hope to have?
What sorts of videos are you producing or hoping to produce, for money?
Do you plan on renting out the camera, or just shooting with it yourself?


Those are a few questions that I think will help narrow it down to give us a more accurate picture of where you're at.

[Spartacus]

When speaking of the HVX, don´t forget that it is not all about HD - the HVX offers the best SD of all the "prosumer" cams out there DVCpro50 with 4:2:2 colorspace...
So yes, SD will still be around for a while, but why not shoot better than miniDV?
Also, looking at old BetaSP stuff of mine, I would give a lot to go back in time and film it again in good quality, so my point is if you can afford it get the HVX, even if you find out just then, that filming isn´t your cup of tea, you can sell it again - probably loosing a similar amount than when selling the DVX (just wait for the 16GB cards, used 8GBs will probably soon "flood" the market...)

[OnlineAthlete]

Thanks for the words guys! To answer the necessary questions:

I am 27 years old.
I live on the Space Coast Florida (about an hour from Orlando; which is good).
I am a graduate of film school with about 3 years camera experience (don't roll your eyes yet).
I am currently looking to expand my demo reel and career with my own equipment.
I have only made money on a few camera shoots working as a camera op or in camera dept. in this area.
I am beginning to work in music videos, but looking to expand to commercials.
Alot of opportunity is opening up for me in music videos so it would be beneficial if I could offer a camera to go along with directing.
I would love to both rent the camera and/or the camera & myself out.
I am also a writer so I am looking to have equipment to make my own shorts.
Dream job: I am looking to move into low budget martial art flicks around the world... but that will come in time. Believing that a camera will help solidify that.
So I am looking to run the whole gamut of possibilities and opportunities.
So I want to make the best investment or next step for the future... HD or not to HD!?!?

[BlackDogProDP]

The HVX actually only shoots 4:2:2 in HD. You have to dub HD footage to tape in order to take advantage of the 4:2:2 lumen ratio. The difference in the SD image quality is from the HVX having native 16:9 CCD chips.

[Luis Caffesse]

Alright - here is my 2 cents.

You say you have $2500 saved up.
You've made money on a few camera shoots.
You want to expand your demo reel and career.
You want to expand to commercials.

I'm assuming here that you don't own much other gear.
If that's not the case, please correct me.

The facts of the matter are:

The DVX100b will cost you roughly $2700
The HVX200 will cost you roughly $5200

And that is only the cost of the cameras themselves.
Keep in mind that if you want to work as a freelance director/cameraman you will need quite a bit more to have a workable package.

You'll need a decent tripod, batteries, a camera case.
And those are just the minimum requirements.
For those I would assume another 1500-2000 in costs.
You could probably get away a little cheaper if you had to.
Lets be really cheap and say you're going to spend 1000 on all your accessories.

So now you're talking about 3700 for a DVX package versus 6200 for the HVX package.

But, keep in mind if you want to shoot HD with the HVX you'll want to either invest in additional P2 cards or a FireStore. On top of which you'll need to make sure you have either enough storage with your P2 cards, or a place to dump that footage during a shoot (i.e. laptop). Add to that the fact that the HD footage will take up a bit more space on your editing system, so hard drive costs should be factored in.

My point here isn't to scare you off from the HVX - but just to point out two things:

1. The camera is just the first piece of the puzzle. Without the proper supporting accessories you'll have a difficult time.

2. The difference in cost between the DVX and the HVX goes much further than just the cost of the camera body itself.

Back in February I made what was for me a good sized investment in alot of new gear which included a new HVX camera package. For the camera, batteries, Firestore, Tripod, and additional external drives I bought I think I spent somewhere close to 9000 dollars. And I still haven't gotten a decent case for the camera.

Now the only reason I made that investment was because I had contracts with new clients that required the project be shot in HD. By the time my credit card was scanned, I knew that equipment was going to pay for itself.

BUT - other than this one client, every other client I have at the moment is still perfectly fine with DV. The situation may be different in Florida, I'm not sure. Check around with some of the local TV stations, see what formats they accept. Talk to some local production houses and see what their shooting with. Also look into the local rental houses and see what cameras are being rented out the most (that can help you figure out what needs may not be being met in your market, and what cameras are the most popular).

From what I know from what you've told me, if you are just starting out in trying to make a career out of working in video, my suggestion would be to go with the DVX right now. It may not be the 'sexy' choice, but it will be the most financially feasible one. The last thing you want to do is start a career having to take every job that comes by just so you can pay down your credit card debt. Instead, take the jobs that will give you the most experience, the opportunity to do something new. If your gear is paid for, then you'll be in a better position to concentrate on growing your skills as opposed to paying off your creditors.

If you haven't been able to make your money back in the next year, then you'll have done something wrong, in my opinion. The DVX is a great camera - I used one for years up until February. And even now I use the DV mode on my HVX alot more than I thought I would (especially for local spots).

Use the DVX for the next year or two - gain more experience. In that time you'll build up a reel, make connections, and hopefully grow a client base. Once you've established yourself a little bit you'll be in a better position to make the move to the next level of camera. And at that point you'll be in a position to be the first guy on the block to get the next generation HD cam - except now, you'll have a reputation behind you as well.

Having a great camera will get you 1 job from a client.
But doing great work will get you called back.

That's just my opinion.
But then again - I'm not that adventurous.
Good luck!

:thumbsup:

[Spartacus]

The HVX actually only shoots 4:2:2 in HD. You have to dub HD footage to tape in order to take advantage of the 4:2:2 lumen ratio. The difference in the SD image quality is from the HVX having native 16:9 CCD chips.

THIS IS PlAIN WRONG!

People come here and seek advice, please get your facts straight before posting!
DVCpro50, an SD format, uses a 4:2:2 color space (I suppose you mean this by "lumen ratio"...?), the HVX can shoot this format to P2 cards (only).

[Noel Evans]

THIS IS PlAIN WRONG!

People come here and seek advice, please get your facts straight before posting!
DVCpro50, an SD format, uses a 4:2:2 color space (I suppose you mean this by "lumen ratio"...?), the HVX can shoot this format to P2 cards (only).

Easy soldier. This is a common misconception and its due in most part to terminology. SD is often confused with plain old DV. When in fact the two arent the same.

DV SD is 4:1:1
DVCPRO50 SD is 4:2:2

[wgzn]

i dunno, if you already have some decent experience and some connections in your market, that HVX could bump you up into better paying gigs. its only about a 3 grand additional investment. might be worth the gamble in this case. hell, the hvx (either camera could but the hvx especially) could make you that much in a day...

however, adding to luis' point from above. just for a basic "shoot and store" kit youre looking at AT LEAST:

hvx - 5200
2, 8 gig cards - 1300
old laptop to dump cards to - 700
external fw hard drive (laptop internal drives are pretty small) - 300
hard case - 200

so right there, youre looking at $7700
you can rent extra batteries, heavy duty tripod, lights, etc as you need them. or buy as your income allows...

another thing to consider is that after you buy an HVX, you begin to notice all the really great and VERY helpful accessories to go along with it. zacuto shoulder/rods set up (2900), external HD monitor (min 800), 35mm lens adapter (min 1300), lenses (god knows!), crane (min 500), remote focus/zoom controls (700 and up)... next thing you know youve spent upwards of $14k and now you have to buy a bigger car to carry it all!

[Spartacus]

Easy soldier. This is a common misconception and its due in most part to terminology. SD is often confused with plain old DV. When in fact the two arent the same.

DV SD is 4:1:1
DVCPRO50 SD is 4:2:2

No soldier here;o)
Yes, it is a misconception, that is why I tried to mark it as one!
It is plain wrong and since the statement didn´t say "as far as I know" or "I believe", it was presented as a fact - a false fact!
Don´t see anything wrong with correcting that...

[OnlineAthlete]

I think you guys have me thinking about "earning" my way to an HVX. Which is probably not the "sexy" choice (the exact words I needed to hear btw), but it is smart next step. The next step build a proper launch pad into HD. The amount of investment that goes into a complete camera package, as well as the earning power of the DVX might still be capable of might sway me into that choice. Besides, I dont have to stay a prosumer white belt (or orange depending on who you are talking too) with the DVX forever. HVX still brings a sparkle to my eye though....

I think given the invaluable wisdom and advice bestowed upon me here, I think my next best step is to take a big long look at a business plan and do some more investigation into my local market.


Thank you all very much for your time and words. You guys make this site a great resource...